YSK: No Labels is a political party trying to run a spoiler candidate for President in 2024 that should not be taken seriously.
YSK: No Labels is a political party trying to run a spoiler candidate for President in 2024 that should not be taken seriously.
WYSK: There funded by dark money PACS, but some good reporting has brought out these names: David Koch, Peter Thiel, Reid Hoffman, Mark Cuban, Harlan Crow, and Michael Bloomberg. Some of there members are most famous for stopping big bills. Joe Leiberman, for example, single handedly stopped the single payer portion of the ACA. Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsen Simena kept the John Lewis voting rights act from passing, and famously kept the senate from repealing the filibuster.
You're viewing a single thread.
Biden is doing a good job given the circumstances. If you don't want the total destruction of the United States, there is really only one choice for president... Joe Biden. All other roads lead to the Dark Lord Trumples, the Silly Piggy.
Biden. Voting Reform.
The dems are never going to pass voting reform for the same reason the UK labour party (a considerably further left party than the dems) has never passed it despite pretending they would consider it for multiple decades now. They benefit from FPTP. All they would be doing is diluting their power and handing over a huge portion of the political landscape to socialists who would immediately become relevant, they would then be forced to actually come to agreements with those socialists as opposed to just completely and totally ignoring them as they do currently.
Oh looky here,
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/senate-voting-legislation-filibuster/index.html
Manchin and Sinema blocking exactly what your talking about
And you think that the dems wouldn't magically find someone else to do a spoiler vote on issues they don't really want to pass? Lmao why are americans this hilariously naive? These people do not represent the average working class person, they represent millionaires and billionaires, they represent the very corporate owners that the fediverse exists to escape from. When you finally realise this you will begin to start seeing through the bullshit. Half of this stuff can be done via Executive powers. They don't do it because they do not want to.
Unfortunately, we're all so polarized left/right, red/blue, that everyone's become blind to this. The big wigs started a culture/political war to keep us away from the class war. And they've won unfortunately. Part of the reason I can't get I to politics with anyone, because while they all scream left or right, I'm out here on my soap box screaming tear the whole government down and start over. The "progressive" parties will only push as hard as they can without losing any of their/their corporate overlords excess income.
The liberals will never recognise the trend of history that they've created, or take blame. They will blame the people instead, choosing to blame ontological factors over a materialist understanding of history.
The point of this entire post is to try to illustrate how you do not have to buy out an entire political party, when you only have to get to those on the margins of a majority.
You put all democrats into a little box, things are more nuanced than that. Yes, people with tons of money have tons of influence is US politics, this post illustrates specific names and examples.
Do you have anything to add to this conversation, or do you just want to paint with broad strokes?
I will paint party politics with broad strokes because that is exactly what party politics is. Collectives representing collectives. You don't get to individualise it as and when it suits you, then collectivise it as and when it suits you at other times.
The path of America from now until its end is liberals increasingly doing nothing to prevent the declining standards of living of millions of people while enriching the people they actually represent up until the population becomes so alienated that they give up on them. Then? Fascism. Until the country is torn into pieces.
There is no off ramp. And I will continue to advocate that people organise around planning for this inevitability through means outside of the useless dems ushering in this fascism. Anything else is morally reprehensible.
The Supreme Court just decided that businesses refusing business to protected minorities is free speech. The door is open for segregation again. What are the Dems going to do about it? Actually fucking use any powers in their hands or just tell people to voooooooote? They'll do nothing, because they're complicit.
Not a fan of todays supreme court decisions today either.
The rest of your response is unhinged, I'm going to keep going to my day job, and voting for the most progressive candidates.
There's nothing "unhinged" about recognising the fact that I as a trans person am the subject matter of genocide legislation today and that all rights across the board are regressing as fascists continue to make gains even at times when Dems hold every single power necessary to stop them. The fact that you hand wave the direction of the country away when oppressed groups are screaming at them to do something (spoiler: they'll keep doing nothing) is part of the reason that you're seeing this enormous leftwards radicalisation and shift away from liberalism.
Resorting to ableism because you don't like people to your left critiquing you is also partially responsible.
Is labour still even left of Democrats? Their anti trans courting and behavior speaks volumes.
Pink washing doesn't make the party "left". It doesn't absolve the democrats of being warmongers, global keepers of imperialism, upholders of torture facilities or the border concentration camps full of children.
What makes them left or right is where they sit economically as representatives of the capitalist class, the millionaires and billionaires.
Even David Cameron, former leader of the Tories, is to the left of Biden.
I absolutely agree that Labour throwing trans people under a bus is abhorrent though. Unfortunately with the way things are there is no left spoiler alternative to go for, although the Greens will probably function as one they're very far from what the those of us in the third of the country who fought for Corbyn believe in.
What reform, exactly?
Ranked choice voting, fix gerrymandering and voter suppression, end disenfranchisement of felons. Such things. I would love to hear any ideas if you or lemmy had some.
Lots of people say and think that Biden is too old and demented but his has been the best Democratic presidency in 50 years.
Care to say why he's the best in 50 years ? I for one think Obama is hard to beat.
Don’t confuse president with presidency. Obama did a poor job of negotiation and was unable to achieve any give and take with republicans. Biden just prevented a government shutdown and has passed far more progressive legislation and has made much more decisive decisions. Biden’s DOD knew Putin was going to attack Ukraine for months and prepared for it.
Biden’s DOD knew Putin was going to attack Ukraine for months and prepared for it.
As if that matters to a wage earner.
Under both Obama and Biden, the following statements are true for at least 40,000,000 Americans (probably a whole lot more now): You need multiple jobs to live. You can't afford health care. You can't afford to educate yourself or your kids. The majority of the taxes you pay go overseas to fight between eight and ten wars, some of which aren't ours. Israel gets more in aid from your tax dollars than you do. You are never more than one paycheck away from being ruined and homeless.
We're likely going to be an outright fascist state within the next ten years because Democrats, when we gave them power, used it to make the rich wealthier. It's that simple.
Loool. Is this a joke?
Republican policies have destroyed the middle class since Reagan. You just said “you can’t afford to educate yourself or your kids” yet fail to acknowledge Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan.
You are complaining about problems ENTIRELY CAUSED BY REPUBLICANS yet are blaming Democrats. You call when the shuttle lands crazy man.
Student loan forgiveness is just a PR stunt if they dont also make all state/community college free for everyone
Lol. Might as well vote Republican then! They’ll make all state/community colleges free!
Republican policies have destroyed the middle class since Reagan.
And we've given Democrats several majorities in the last four decades, and they've used them to empower the wealthy and kill the middle class even more. At some point a reasonable person has to acknowledge that a failure to act constitutes policy.
Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan
Biden can forgive student loans unilaterally, and he already has in the case of people who were defrauded, so his so-called plan only served to add red tape to a process that didn't require it. Effectively, he's running cover for his wealthy donors on this issue and trying to retain positive optics, which apparently worked really well in your case, but I'm guessing you never had student loan debt, or maybe you'd expect more than performative gestures and empty promises.
You are a shill or troll if you really think any continent human will buy your argument that Democrats are responsible for wealth inequality. Lolol.
It's not an argument.
It's an acknowledgement of 40 years of history and incremental progress backward. When Reagan took office you could support an American family with a high school education and one employed parent. Now, you need two post-graduate degrees to guarantee success in this country. Clinton, Obama, and Biden all had control of Congress during their presidencies. (Obama even had a supermajority for six months.)
They all had the power to make real, meaningful change. They made and broke promises. That's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of historical fact, and again, a reasonable person has to acknowledge that 40 years of failure to act constitutes policy on the part of Democrats.
Why does no one making this kind of dumbass comment ever acknowledge the very obvious role that Republican obstruction has played in stopping any Democratic attempt to fix this shit in the past 40 years?
Stop gerrymandering, implement approval voting (easier for most people to understand than ranked choice), watch good legislation actually get passed.
Why does no one making this kind of dumbass comment ever acknowledge the very obvious role that Republican obstruction has played in stopping any Democratic attempt to fix this shit in the past 40 years?
Probably because they know more about history than you do, clearly, and aren't content to watch these vulgar, wealthy Democrats break their promises over the course of entire generations.
Lmfao, completely ignoring the long history of Republican obstruction, deregulation, tax breaks for the rich, and systemic dismantling of the American middle class.
Completely ignoring the accomplishment that was the Affordable Healthcare Act before it was gutted by the Republicans. Ignoring the historic legislation passed by the Biden administration like the Climate Bill and the Infrastructure Bill.
But yeah, Democrats have been the real problem the whole time...
Stop parroting this propaganda that only benefits the right wing destructionists.
But yeah, Democrats have been the real problem the whole time…
Totally. I shouldn't expect Democrats to use the majorities we gave them over the last 40 years to do things that actually help the middle class, like codify abortion into law or enact a living wage. I should just, you know, listen to the speeches, clap, and accept excuses, as you do.
Is this comment satirical?
So do you have anything of value to contribute? All of your comments seem to just be criticizing Democrats for '40 years of doing nothing'. When the choice is between fascists and status quo, there's one choice. It sucks but all we can do is try to pursue the Democratic establishment to push progressive changes. Obama wasted opportunity with control of the Senate, but Biden hasn't had the same luxury. Trump appointment SCJs also set back progress.
Third party literally isn't an option, otherwise we'll get more fascists because everything center and right is content voting against any progress to maintain white 'supremacy' and 'family values' (read Oppression of minority groups and female autonomy).
We're forced to work with the system we have and the parent commenter makes sincere note of necessary changes that would make it possible to maybe not be in the position where we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.
But go on with your sarcastic dissent, it's really helping progress. Fucking pathetic.
Joe Biden should be in an old folks home. He can barely stand up let alone lead a nation. No fan of the other guy either, but let's face it. Both of them are only puppets on a string.
Biden has accomplished alot of big things actually, they just aren't culture war issues so Republicans have never heard of any of them.
nonetheless, Biden still sounds far, far more coherent than Trump ever did when President
"a historic bipartisan infrastructure bill, generational investments in clean energy and semiconductor manufacturing, the first gun safety law in almost 30 years, a bill codifying same-sex marriage, a bill aiding veterans who suffered health effects from burn pits and an electoral reform to prevent a repeat of Trump’s attempt to use Congress to undermine the election."
I think he's doing a fine job.
Yeah but what about drag queens and fighting about childrens movies? Clearly those issues are far more important than infrastructure, strengthening the economy and taking care of veterans
How many kids are still imprisoned in the concentration camps on the border?
In today's news, people can think about more than one thing at a time. Border policy doesn't negate the fact that the Climate Bill and the Infrastructure Bill were objectively good, historic pieces of legislation.
I don't think that answers my question? How many children are still locked up in concentration camps on the border? What is the number? Do you even know or are you just completely checked out from the issue because you are morally reprehensible? Let me illuminate it for you, 1 in 3 of all migrants held in america's concentration camps is a child.
The fact the US has concentration camps on the border and that liberals have just conveniently forgotten about it and gone back to brunch as soon as Biden became president is the problem here. You make claims before an election about issues and then do nothing about them when you have every power to do so. Then you wonder why nobody is enthused to vote for a gaggle of liars.
Pretending that the US is doing literally anything about climate is also a joke. The bill is worthless because it does not change the fact that fossil industries have a higher rate of profit than renewables and until this is resolved every single action on climate is completely performative that only brings us closer and closer to the inevitable disaster that capitalism has caused. What you are doing is greenwashing concentration camps.
Hey, here's the funny thing about the internet: No one is obligated to engage in questions posed in bad faith.
Here's what the climate bill contains for anyone actually interested:
https://youtu.be/qw5zzrOpo2sIt wasn't asked in bad faith. If you knew the answer beforehand I would have happily conceded you do in fact care about having concentration camps. Not knowing is absolutely a sign of being checked out, which is half the issue here, none of you actually do anything except vote. You see politics as something you do once every few years and as a spectator sport the rest of the time. You have no concept of electoral vs non-electoral politics, you literally do not take part politically except as entertainment consumption outside of voting. You all have this embarrassing mindset:
I know the question is in bad faith because these are not concentration camps:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/07/biden-migrant-families-detention
The definition of a concentration camp is: "a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities".
They are concentration camps. Calling them "migrant detention facilities" does not change their function. It also does not change the fact that the US has been forcefully sterilising women in them either.
"If families were detained, they would be held for short periods of time, perhaps just a few days, and their cases expedited through immigration court"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/07/biden-migrant-families-detention
Not concentration camps. You don't get to leave a concentration camp after having your day in court. Are detention centers ideal? No. But neither is leaving people in the desert without food, water, or shelter, (or worse, leaving them prey to local vigilantes).
Yes, the Trump administration was keeping people in horrific conditions, forcibly sterilizing women, and separating children from their parents without cause and without tracking. If you have some specific evidence that those abuses continue to this day under the Biden administration, please feel free to share.
"If families were detained, they would be held for short periods of time, perhaps just a few days, and their cases expedited through immigration court"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/07/biden-migrant-families-detention
Not concentration camps. You don't get to leave a concentration camp after having your day in court. Are detention centers ideal? No. But neither is leaving people in the desert without food, water, or shelter, (or worse, leaving them prey to local vigilantes).
Yes, the Trump administration was keeping people in horrific conditions, forcibly sterilizing women, and separating children from their parents without cause and without tracking. If you have some specific evidence that those abuses continue to this day under the Biden administration, please feel free to share.
They're both far from the best the USA has to offer, but it's better to understand and attack the structural barriers to viable 3rd parties here than to get pissed off at the state of disenfranchisement of the average voter and elect a ' wild card' out of spite
undefined> attack the structural barriers to viable 3rd parties
Which starts by voting third party and ignoring people who parrot nonsense like "a vote for X is a vote for Y".
Nope, terrible idea. You've walked into their trap card: First past the post voting. It takes advantage of your impatience and lack of understanding of the system to lure you into throwing your vote away.
I'd say it starts with bringing ranked or approval voting to your state, supporting voter initiatives in your state that erode the 2 party systems power.
You need to understand
- how party primaries function to prevent real candidates from getting in
- how the 2 parties have sequestered funding and resources that the other parties don't have access to
- how the 2 parties have changed the US government to entrench their power
Nope, that's nonsense that just reinforces the existing dual party structure. The statement 'throwing your vote away' is the first sign you're on the wrong track.
I want a viable third party as much as you do. I'd like to actually have a choice instead of always choosing Democrats because I'm not insane. But third party votes aren't the way to change that. I think plenty of people have mentioned the game theory and FPTP, so I'd like to touch on two other points.
For one, if you look at the third parties, they're laughable. They aren't even serious about winning! What power would a Green or Libertarian president even have if they somehow won but Congress was still just Democrat or Republican? This is an important litmus test with these parties. You don't grow top down. You field every election, but your priorities are local and state. If you want to be a serious national contender, you need to start influencing local and state elections. Then, elections for the House and Senate. And finally, president. You need candidates who have plenty of experience throughout government, and right now no third party can offer that. The fact that they only care about the presidency tells us something very important. They're only in it for the grift. It's their cash cow. Hell, look at their platform, and you don't need to even be against third parties to vote against them. Vaccine hesitancy and anti nuclear are instant rejections from me.
Second, it does actually seem like we could see a third large party, and it isn't from any current third party. Republicans are heavily fractured. There's sharp divisions between the extremist Trump wing and the more moderate and establishment Republicans. It's very possible the Trump wing breaks into its own party, especially if Trump doesn't seem like he'll be the GOP nominee. We can examine this dynamic. The faction is probably 10-15% of Americans, which puts them at the third largest. And if they become a new party, it'll be after having exploited the Republicans to get themselves off the ground, and they'll be taking some infrastructure and voter networks with them. There's also the possibility that a third party forms if Republicans do disastrously in the next elections, but that's a way more involved situation.
In my world history class, we learned about two men who disliked the Catholic Church's corruption and wanted to see it cleansed. One was Martin Luther, who left and made his own successful sect. The other is Erasmus, who worked within the church and eventually brought about the changes he wanted to see. Luther may have influenced matters at the time, but it still took someone like Erasmus to create the change. So, who in the end was actually successful with their goal to purge corruption? Erasmus, by working within the system. Luther was quite successful, but he failed horribly at his original goal.
Vote for who you want in the primary, but in the general, vote blue no matter who. We've already seen that this works at changing the party. This is why there's now a prominent progressive wing, and why Biden, a moderate, has championed progressive legislation. It's much easier to co-opt and use an existing system.
go back to the fox news grandpa
tbh I think if Biden gets reelected, america will inevitably collapse as a nation. we're already close to the tipping point and biden has done nothing but accelerate that collapse.
Biden has been as milquetoast as possible. The fact that the right is becoming more and more unhinged only shows how off the rails they are.
I think biden is actually an extremist in social policy, and an emboldend corporate shill in economic policy. So while he might be "milquetoast" in terms of democrat vs republican, he's far from what regular people want/need.
Ironically, most establishment republicans are also this way. They're happy to push insane social policy stuff, while bootlicking the corporations.
I honestly think that the GOP will probably split or collapse due to the establishment GOP's resistance to their populist voterbase. Democrats call it 'unhinged' but when informal polls show literally hitler as preferable by both left and right to biden/trump, I would say that both dnc/gop are the unhinged ones, not the people sick of the two parties.
"milquetoast" is the literal polar opposite of what we need right now.
I would like to see those polls.
See here. Obviously informal, obviously people expressing "as a joke" or just trolling. These polls bias towards right wing followers. But still revealing nonetheless. In my circles I'm seeing both far left and far right move towards populist "centrist" rhetoric and labeling. Andrew Yang's Forward Party being emblematic of that (who I just found out support No Labels).
We also saw things like Jimmy Dore go onto Tucker Carlson's show, both Dore and Carlson expressing discontent with the Biden/Trump matchup, and both being pushed out from more establishment MSM/DNC/GOP stuff.
To me it looks pretty clear that many people are eager for drastic change, in a way that would clearly benefit and help the average person; with severe opposition to the establishment talking points and organizations. We also recently saw this with the covid stuff, both far left and far right joining to express skepticism over the mainstream establishment narrative.
People are very clearly upset with the way DC politics are going. Biden is historically unpopular with everyone except his core base and progressives. Trump is pretty universally disliked except among the right (who are growing discontent with him).
When I say a Biden election will lead to the collapse of America I say this mainly because I see the way things will go in the next few years if Biden gets reelected. The automation crisis will worsen, wealth inequality will worsen, progressive extremism will worsen, geopolitical conflict will worsen, the border crisis will worsen. And when push comes to shove it's obvious to most people that biden will side with the larger wef/un agendas.
America is starting to reach around 250 years, which is historically shown to be the point of collapse for empires. The establishment organizations are planning for a big 2030 political event, and I'm sure already have an entire plan for 2028 election. I imagine growing discontent with a biden or trump second term will roll in nicely to people flocking to the candidate picked for 2028 who will almost certainly be addressing automation crisis and geopolitics.
Most people are aware biden and trump are awful, and do not like them. Most people already do not vote. and those who do vote feel "stuck" with biden/trump. Many are saying things like "I don't like biden, but I vote for him because I don't like Trump" and vice versa.
Strong action is needed, but not the kind that Biden is doing.
And Donald trump will be better? He did more harm in his 4years than biden has in his
If trump gets elected, america will also inevitably collapse. neither are equipped to handle the upcoming issues.