It’s an Absolutely Terrifying Night in Gaza Right Now
It’s an Absolutely Terrifying Night in Gaza Right Now
Israel’s military began a heavy aerial bombardment of Gaza after nightfall on Friday and announced that it is “expanding” its ground operations into the territory—but did not declare a full-scale ground invasion that has been expected for weeks.Internet and phone service in Gaza has been mostly, if ...
Some people, communicating via satellite phones, have described the attack as the “heaviest bombardment yet,” according to independent journalist Sharif Kouddous.
“People can’t call ambulances or civil defense. We are being bombed in an unprecedented manner,” said an unidentified journalist at a Gaza hospital, according to a translation by The Nation’s Palestinian correspondent, Mohammed El-Kurd. “The sky around us just lights up [with explosions], and no one knows what’s going on.”
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Israel is no better than Russia.
Except that Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie. Russia and hamas are aggressors.
Ukraine attacking Russia was a lie, Israel ethnic cleansing Palestine is reality.
The sad news in reality is more people and more and more get killed every hour. I just can't watch it anymore.
I just ate breakfast and watched the news. It is easy.
If you say so. Still it didn't worth it to plan and perform that October 7th aggression. To think how much time and resources that required and how much stuff could be done instead to actually improve the lives of Palestinians, it's sad and should be embarrassing.
Hamas obviously doesn’t give the slightest fuck about Palestinians’ wellbeing.
Right? If they cared they wouldn't have attacked.
The median age of Palestinians is 18 which means more than half weren't alive for the vote of Hamas. Now, Hamas has dismantled any democracy so they can't even take a diplomatic route. And Israel keeps bombing them making sure they continue the system of oppression which in turn spawns more radicals.
Oh, look... more white supremacists blaming the colonized for their own genocidal colonization.
Israel are white ?
Gee, I wonder what this reminds me of?
It's almost like it reminds me of some other fundamentally white supremacist country I can't quite put my finger on right now.
Don't help me... it's on the tip of my tongue!
What are you talking about ???
And that's their main problem. You can't be responsible government if you don't care about your citizens. You can't rely on the rest of the world to save your citizens while you continue aggression.
Well you could say that with the money Israel is burning for the terrorist action these days it could have found a way to keep its citizens alive.. and still here we are.
These kind of arguments don't really help do much progress, do they?
You can't imagine how much money were burned on iron dome alone. All to save lives and try to show terrorists they should do something else with their lives.
And yet..
Yeah... imagine if Jewish people spent their energy appeasing Nazis instead of doing the "Jewish Bolshevism" which forced those poor white supremacists to go on a genocidal rampage - tsk, tsk.
(/s - for the people on here that aren't rabid white supremacists like the one I'm responding to)
Yeah, it gradually became a tankie instance :/
I mean they took .ml because it's short for marxist-leninist. They've always been as bad as grad
Ahh, didn't know that. Interesting tidbit of true, thanks.
I mean... yeah if you count back to the time after Hamas's creation.
why do you think Hamas exists at all lol?
It doesn't matter as long as their are not doing what is better for them, or Palestinians. Spoiler: attacking Israel like they did on October 7th was not going to do any good.
Attacking Palestinians now will not do any good. Hamas is not good and committed a terrorist act. An atrocity. Hundreds injured and dead.
Palestine has 7000 dead including 3000 children from just this month. More children dead than any entire year of any other war of the last 3 years, including Ukraine.
There are over a hundred times as many dead Palestinian kids as Israeli. We should mourn both, but we should keep in contact the numbers too.
Attacking Palestinians now will not do any good.
Attacking hamas will. It was done before and it helped with stopping attacks, for a while but still.
Palestine has 7000 dead including 3000 children from just this month.
That information comes from hamas. Terrorists should not be trusted. It's enough to know that there are casualties. Even one death is a tragedy.
And no, these are not exactly comparable. Russia has no good reasons to invade Ukraine. Israel has good reasons to invade Gaza.
Attacking Hamas is not happening, but nobody denies that attacking Hamas is justified. Attacking Palestinians in general as an alternative in the hope that some of Hamas is swept up is a war crime.
That information comes from the Palestinians health authority which is considered pretty accurate. Every death is a tragedy, yes, so 3000 kids tragedies is 100 times the tragedies of the 30.
Israel does not have good reason to "invade" Gaza. They are using terrorist attacks to justice genocide. Genocide is never justified.
I don't think your assumption that Israel can only "attack Palestinians in hopes to harm hamas" is correct. They wouldn't warn anyone otherwise and we know they did that a lot of times. Also their counter strikes would've been much more effective if they wouldn't do that.
There are no authorities in Gaza except hamas. Gaza is fully controlled by terrorists. If there would be such an authority I'm sure they wouldn't allow building military objects under hospitals.
They are using terrorist attacks to justice genocide.
Think you mistyped "justify". Israel doesn't need to justify defending from terrorists. Hamas, on the other hand, has a record of using Palestinians as a shield and not caring to protect them at all.
Hamas using them as a shield does not make killing them right.
Israel is not defending itself from terrorism. It is retaliation for a terrorist attack.
They do have some intelligence as to where Hamas use as locations etc however rules of war require they take precautions to minimise civilian casualties. They give some warnings as this gives plausible deniability that they are taking precautions. The number of dead civilians versus confirmed Hamas killed tells a different story. Telling people to leave but closing the border tells a different story. Telly people to leave one area then bombing the path they were told to take tells a different story.
Hamas is the de facto government, but Palestine is not recognized as a state so there is not really a government, as most in other countries would know it, especially western counyries. Guess who is preventing normalisation of their sovereignty? Last elections were 17 years ago. The youngest people to vote are now over 35. 50% of the population is under 18. So, the legitimacy of saying they voted for this is spurious at best. Remember Israel and netamyahu in particular stifled their competitors.
Incessant bombing of civilians is creating more terrorists, not less. That doesn't make it right, but to make out like Israel is defending itself while killing thousands of children is ridiculous. Israel as a state is a de facto terrorist state too at this point
Hamas using them as a shield does not make killing them right.
It makes hamas responsible for their death. Otherwise, you are suggesting leaving alone terrorists who asked you to not bomb them, and who will still proceed to bomb you.
Israel is not defending itself from terrorism. It is retaliation for a terrorist attack.
Hamas launched rockets regularly. And you're saying Israel only now started to retaliate? They must be very lazy, yes? Or maybe it's because they have been shown they had to do it, as defending-only way no longer works.
They give some warnings as this gives plausible deniability that they are taking precautions.
Wow, people do what they have to do and you are saying they are doing it with malicious intention.
The number of dead civilians versus confirmed Hamas killed tells a different story.
What versus what exactly? One side is Israel who is monitored by the whole world, and the other is a territory controlled by terrorists. Numbers coming from the latter are useless without further confirmations.
Telling people to leave but closing the border tells a different story.
Did Israel close the border? I know Egypt did. Can't blame Israel if they did so.
Telly people to leave one area then bombing the path they were told to take tells a different story.
Proceed to demand explanation if you like. I doubt they would waste resources to do something that useless.
Hamas is the de facto government, but Palestine is not recognized as a state so there is not really a government, as most in other countries would know it, especially western counyries. Guess who is preventing normalisation of their sovereignty?
If they really wanted to become a proper country with proper government they would at least try. Instead they are focused on trying to do the impossible - winning the war versus Israel, using stones and sticks.
Last elections were 17 years ago. The youngest people to vote are now over 35. 50% of the population is under 18. So, the legitimacy of saying they voted for this is spurious at best.
Those are useless details that can't justify anything.
Remember Israel and netamyahu in particular stifled their competitors.
Irrelevant. You are proposing basically that hamas is the best Palestinians can get, and I strongly disagree.
Incessant bombing of civilians is creating more terrorists, not less. That doesn't make it right, but to make out like Israel is defending itself while killing thousands of children is ridiculous. Israel as a state is a de facto terrorist state too at this point
- this is not what Israel wants or tries to do.
- hamas created situations where civillians are located near places they launch rockets from.
- hamas also created situation where Palestinians are not protected at all from any (counter)attacks. They say this is a responsibility of others which is ridiculous.
- hamas can stop the whole thing by surrendering.
Israel is responsible for the Palestinians dead, not Hamas. The question is whether they are justified in killing the Palestinians. It is a war crime to kill indiscriminately without care to avoid civilian casualties. That's why I mention about the performative warnings. They are not genuine nor helpful.
Hamas launched rockets for years. Israel kicked Palestinians out of settlements and killed them for years. Again, one side being terrible doesn't make the other good. Look at the statistics of how many Israel is died versus how many Palestinians. Your logic that Israel has a right to defend itself goes both ways.
Yes Israel closed the border. And cut off supplies of food water and medical supplies. Thousands of children are being treated in hospitals for burns covering over 40% of their bodies with no available general anesthesia. That is cruelty and inhumane.
I agree, Palestinians can do better than Hamas. Guess who stifled funding for their competition? Israel, or more specifically, Netamyahu. There has been calls for a Palestine state for decades, including negotiations with USA helping intervene. They were abandoned due to both sides not budging. Again, no good side, just bad on both, with innocent people dying in the meantime.
You say that Hamas is the government then ignore the problems with legitimacy of Hamas. You ignore that the Palestinians want to be a state but most other countries refuse to recognize it. They already consider themselves a state. Youre not following logic or using similar metrics for each side, so I'm going to leave it here. I hope you continue to learn more as you seem to be arguing from a place of propaganda rather than facts. We are all susceptible to propaganda, so that's not a dig at you but I thought worth pointing out.
Bullcrap. Israel has been invading Palestine since 1949.
Invading unprovoked?
There is such a thing as "provoked" white supremacist settler-colonialism?
I take it you think this "war" started when Hamas attacked them this year?
Israel has been occupying Palestine for decades.
Aggression. Aggression that showed Israel's way of defense can no longer work and that terrorists won't stop.
As for the occupation, there is no use in arguing because the bigger issue is logic. It was obvious from the start that this action would not have chances to bring any good end to the situation for Palestinians. No matter what real or fake reasons are, it was foolish. Attacking Israel because of occupation (with weapons like that) is like stabbing yourself with a knife because you have a flu.
Oh so only the Israelis are allowed to show aggression? The Palestinians just have to take it in silence?
Until they have a chance to actually change anything for good for themselves - yes. Palestinians couldn't unsteal the lands so October 7th was useless. Israel will be able to prevent terrorists attack for a few years so the ground operation is not useless
Or, hamas could just surrender and release all hostages to immediately stop what's happening right now.
That is deranged and inhuman.
Deranged an inhuman is to do terrorism, knowing that not only people are going to die, but your people are, too, going to die and suffer as a result. There is zero "protection" or "justice" in these actions and trying to justify them with anything like "but they are occupiers so it's okay to attack them" is beyond foolish.
Expecting humans to act like robots is quite literally inhuman. They're pissed off and desperate. That has not not ever in human history resulted in negotiations. This entire line of reasoning is only meant to make Palestinians look like violent savages when the reality is this is how Apartheid and anti colonial struggles have always looked.
Expecting humans to act like robots is quite literally inhuman.
Expecting humans to not resort to useless terrorism is nothing like that.
They're pissed off and desperate.
Doesn't mean they can kill anyone and remain unaffected by consequences.
That has not not ever in human history resulted in negotiations.
I'm not sure I understand this sentence. What is "that"? What is "not not"?
This entire line of reasoning is only meant to make Palestinians look like violent savages when the reality is this is how Apartheid and anti colonial struggles have always looked.
I'm not even trying to make Plaestinians look bad and I know some of them really want to kill (some did killed) jews in order to become heroes. They are victims of hamas in several ways, but it doesn't save them. Why? Because Gaza is at war, and, as a war participant, it's unique in how it doesn't care about its civilians during a war. Hamas' only defense is hostages, and Palestinians are not much different from hostages. That's why there may be a lot of casualties, not because Israel is "a bloody monster" or whatever.
I think everyone should drop the whole apartheid/colonialism thing and realize that it can't be solved with current hamas' approach. Maybe it could be solved if Gaza cared to make itself a proper country, to become independent, sustainable and responsible. Maybe also abandoning radical religion could help.
If the Palestinians are hostages why isn't Israel allowing them to leave the combat area?
I'm done here. You're still asserting that this collective punishment is some kind of natural response to the Hamas attack but are completely ignoring any human nature on the side of the Gazans. They have to remain ultra rational while being shot at but the Israelis are allowed to have emotion.
That's interesting considering that Hamas is one of the closest allies of the Kremlin.
You know as well as anyone that this has NOTHING to do with Hamas.
Their strategy of indiscriminate bombing would not be the answer if they wanted to kill Hamas only. There's absolutely no regard for civilians here. They're not destroying Hamas. They're eradicating the population of Palestine. Anyone who lives will rightly join Hamas and after this, honestly I can see why.
The Netanyahu government is currently doing an excellent job recruiting for Hamas.
Hamas as an organization will no longer exist. The Israeli government has been exceptionally and adamantly clear about that
Yeah, like taliban?
I wish the US could've penned the Taliban in the way Hamas is penned in.
Man what an absolute slam dunk no-downsides thing that would have been.
Does this mean you strongly support this action, since these groups are roughly equal?
US can't win a war and neither can Israel.
Lmao.
Violence is never solved with more Violence.
Bullshit. You are here existing because of World Wars.
That is, in fact, the only way to stop an ongoing violent act.
You’re both right.
What works is retaliating against the person or group that attacked you.
What doesn’t work, and makes things worse, is “retaliating” against innocent people who didn’t attack you.
So Hamas shouldn't have retaliated against (murdered and kidnapped) innocent people who didn't attack them (babies, the elderly and other Israeli citizens). Did I get it right?
Hamas is part of the problem. Arab countries have confirmed that Hamas is stockpiling food and water and medicine for themselves.
They don't care about the Palestinians. If they did, those goods would be distributed.
Behavioral/policy similarity doesn't necessarily imply an alliance or partnership compatibility.
Maybe take a look at the agreements between Russia and Israel about Sirya. Welcome to the real world btw.
Evil cunts are hypocrites?? What? Omg
They support Hamas to keep attention off the Ukrainian invasion.
Israel invade Palestine just as Russia do Ukraine...but somehow more inhumanely
eh, they havent threatened to nuke anyone... cant really say that about Russia
MAD isn't a threat? I thought that was the whole point
when did Israel do something like this, hmm?
Almost as bad as pursuing Ethnic Bioweapons research in the late 90s. As in designing diseases to wipe out people of specific ethnicity.
If not worse
Israel is worse than Russia. Russia, in contrast, looks downright reasonable.
In a few weeks, Israel has killed almost as many civilians as those that have died on both sides over the course of almost two years of the Russia-Ukraine war.
.ca never fails to come up with the worst dogshit opinions.
Instead of being dismissive, why are they wrong?
I will continue to be dismissive
So... you can't explain why they're wrong then? That just makes you look like an idiot.
That is the conclusion you seem to have jumped to.
Me too!
Everything any of these leftist fucks say is always wrong. It's impossible to quantify it all in one post, but here's the broad strokes.
- Hamas is a terror organization who steals from, tortures, and oppresses their own people. Hamas seeks to maximize civilian casualties however possible.
2: Israel is not committing (or even attempting) genocide. This one's especially bad because you'd have to be pants-on-head stupid to believe it. It's just pure, distilled, antisemitism.
3: Palestine isn't a country, was never a country, and only Israel has ever been interested in making them a country.
4: Russia and Israel are operating at exact opposite purposes. Russia is trying to rekindle the Russian Empire. Israel is just trying to not suffer genocide against a foreign regime that literally calls for genocide of Jews worldwide. When I say literally, I mean they literally put out a call to action after their attack for Jews to be attacked worldwide, prior to any Israeli military response.
5: Israel is acting with severe restraint compared to what the US would do if a foreign nation invaded and murdered 45,000 people in their homes. Adjusted for population size, that's what the comparable death toll would be in the US. We'd absolutely fucking level any country that did that. We fought WW2 over less. We fought Iraq and Iran over less than 10% of that
It's hard to call out specifics when every single thing every one of these people say is wrong.
You haven't read about the founding of modern Israel and the history of Zionism. Please do
(Before accusing me if being pro-terrorist, pro-Hamas whatever, know that I consider both entities unnecessarily violent and evil. But it is important to know why they are that way)
I am well aware of the history thanks.
zephyreks is a [email protected] mod who is banning people there for "orientalism" when they criticize the CCP (you can check their modlog), also it's the same instance where admins haven't banned a lead Lemmy dev when he repeatedly said that "all Israeli citizens are valid targets" and they merely deleted his comments way after they came under fire but until now they are still working with him. It should be clear by now that most "we're just pro-Palestinians, but look we also don't like Hamas" people here on Lemmy are simply tankies cheering for terrorism and authoritarianism, which is also why they usually share sketchy pro-Hamas sources. They'll concern-troll about the victims in Gaza but in reality all that matters to them is that the US and one of its most important allies get hurt, because, you know, it helps advance their anti-capitalistic "cause", and for the most antisemitic of them they'll also rejoice at some Jewish deaths.
I mean, its not that hard to find both Isreal AND Hamas's actions atrocious. What happened on the terrorist attack was horrifying and disgusting, and so is how Isreal is "Responding" (In quotes because while the severity has ramped up, this isnt exactly new behavior towards Gaza). I hate the Tankies here too, but thats not a Tankie only stance
It should be clear by now that most “we’re just pro-Palestinians, but look we also don’t like Hamas” people here on Lemmy are simply tankies cheering for terrorism and authoritarianism
I disagree here. There's plenty of people genuinely horrified by the civilians killed by both sides.
My modlog hasn't banned anyone lmao go bark up another tree
Numbers don't lie.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia come even close to as bloodthirsty for civilian lives as Israel. Israel is killing civilians and killing Hamas fighters as collateral damage. Ukraine and Russia are killing each other's soldiers and killing civilians as collateral damage. They're not the same.
Numbers in fact do lie. Any knowledge of statistics 101 basic-ass shit sort of proves this
Tell me you don't have a degree without telling me you don't have a degree
5 days for a comeback that weak?
You should've left me crying after cooking up a little something for that long.
I mean, sounds like your most advanced exposure to statistics was "this is a joint probability"
Take a more advanced stats course. It's really insightful and will open your mind.
They haven't taken stats 101 yet
I think this is likely correct. Lemmy's users skew very young. It explains a lot about what opinions, sentiments and views are and are not popular around here. Obviously there are some oldsters like myself, but I think we're more the exception rather than the rule.
That is continually changing as people find the site.
Early adoption sites are always full of young people and extremists early on.
Ukraine is way larger than Gaza, the EU has let millions of refugees in... and still Russia has leveled several Ukrainian cities to the ground, with soldiers shooting random civilians on the streets.
Right now, Russia is like Israel and Hamas put together, the only reason they've killed fewer civilians, is they couldn't find more.
The casualty ratios are way off. Try again.
Try again what, explaining why the casualty ratios are way different? I wouldn't want to repeat myself.
Russia is known to use spotters to confirm military targets before striking in civilian areas: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurant
That's why Russia has disproportionately fewer civilian casualties relative to military ones.
I hope when you realize what a batshit insane take this is, you feel bad enough to actually own it and grow as a person
Whatever helps you and your coscience sleep my dear.
They’re not wrong. That is a braindead comparison
Good argument. You were the first of you class I suppose.
Nope just not stupid enough to compare a religious war with a non religious war.
but you're stupid enough that you can't tell that religion is nothing more than masquerading power over the masses with the promise of a paradise.
Religion is just politics but in the name of a not existent god so the ones in power need no justification of their actions other than "it's God's will".
That's embarassing. I know 14yo who have a better understanding of the situation. You have no idea what you're talking about.
One is a religious war and the other is not, that’s not an opinion, just a basic fact of reality. No idea how delusional you have to be to not comprehend that.
You'll grow up one day.
Living in reality does indeed help me sleep like a baby.
I've bookmarked the page. See you in January.
?!? Are you ok?
Yeah I'm having an awesome day.
Do you mean the bookmarking thing? Took 2 seconds. Didn't even have to put down my coffee
Mate, what the hell are you talkiing about? What are bookmarking for January? Come back to this world for a second maybe?!
Much as I loathe Putin, he has yet to do anything this savage.
Invading a sovereign nation, killing innocents, bombing schools, hospitals, residential areas, forcefully relocating people, land grabbing, spreading dehumanizing propaganda, threatening to use nukes...
It is exactly the same thing what both Hamas and Israel have been doing.
And using enslaved (oops sorry “conscripted”) soldiers to do it!
First paragraph yes, concluding sentence no
Haven't seen the results of Russia's artillery barrages in cities like Bahkmut? A similar barrages I'm Gaza would flatten every building.