I'm going to buy a House!
I'm going to buy a House!
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(It is entirely possible to buy a house in your twenties)
The point isn't that it's impossible.
The point is they act like it's just as easy as it was when they were in their twenties.
Back when you could comfortably support a family with one job working 40hrs/week. Any job.
I didn't have issues. Saved for about a year, nothing crazy, and asked for a loan. Now I own a nice two-story house about a 15 minute walk from the city center. I don't really get this "buying a home is impossible" -meme, I believed that too before I actually tried and was surprised how easy it was.
When was that? Where?
The house I bought in my 20s (for $275k, inflation adjusted) is now worth $475k.
The house I bought in my 30s ($480k, inflation adjusted) is now worth $800k
In my area at least, home prices are far outpacing inflation. I literally couldn't afford to buy the house I'm in today at its current value.
Don’t forget, mortgage rates (at least in the US) are still the highest they’ve been since 9/11/2001.
That makes it even harder to buy the now more expensive house.
I bought my first house back in 2009.
My monthly mortgage payments have been flat for 15 years now. I pay less than 1/4 per month that someone buying my house today would.
Even though we make 2X what we did back when we purchased the first house (graduate degrees), we would still struggle to make the payments on our current place if I had to pay the market price today.
A couple years back during covid, in Finland. House prices here have been creeping up as well but not as aggressively as where you have lived. I doubt that's the case in all of the US, there must be places with more modest prices. I "downgraded" to a smaller city when I went from renter to owner, couldn't have bought a home to my liking in Helsinki due to the prices.
in Finland.
Well there's the issue. Finland isn't experiencing anywhere near the level of housing cost inflation of the US, Canada, and Australia.
And cheaper areas in these countries are cheaper for very good reasons (they suck to live in/have no jobs available).
They have Social Services too if I'm not mistaken.
"Social services" can hold a wide range of stuff and arguably every country does have social services, but yeah it's one of the nordic social democracies with an extensive social safety net in place. I'm extremely grateful for it, even though I personally don't use those services (apart from you know, like roads and shit) and they get funded through my income.
Which means you are not spending monstrous amounts each month for private health insurance which shall only cover things after you've spent 10K
Sure, just move to a place whose best restaurant is McDonalds, the available job market is K-Mart or construction, internet is satellite at best, and 4/5ths of the people think the gays are coming to steal their guns.
I get what you mean, but cutting the hyperbolics out, it doesn't sound too bad. You can't have it all and I had to make concessions about a thing or two.
As an amusing sidenote, the second worst thing about the town I moved to was the lack of mickey Ds. I have to resort to the Finnish off-brand trash version instead.
It literally is not hyperbolics. That's why people are saying you're naive.
This dude and the people upvoting him are braindead, just stop, they are never going to get that things are different in other parts of the world, obviously everyone just needs to move to Finland to solve all issues.
That's not hyperbole, that's people's reality. You are just so privileged and out of touch that it seems crazy to you. You have to make concessions about a thing or two? Well in the US those concession are not going to the doctor so you can afford rent. It's not like people are just blowing money on BS.
Sure. If you live in Cuntass, next to a half dead tree and 500 million mosquitoes
More importantly, there are no jobs in Cuntass, so you can't even afford to live in that shithole unless you work remote
To change the subject completely. I hope my country embraces the work from home option. Especially the public sector should experiment with this form of hiring. People living in all parts of our country is a political goal.
I don't know why southern or "cheaper" states haven't embraced legislation guaranteeing a right to work from home when available. It seems like it would only be a boon to low-COL states to have a larger number of well-paying professionals in the state.
So when you said it's possible to buy a house in your 20s you meant in Finland. Then you make a wild assumption about the US to try to justify what you said? Wut? Dude you are misrepresenting the situation left and right.
Sure there are places houses aren't insanely expensive, but they are generally many hundreds of miles away from where there are jobs available that may pay enough to purchase said house.
Having lived in Europe it amazes me how many Europeans believe that because it's still in the country, it's not all that far. But if you compare directly a few hundred miles is usually in another country in Europe, where in the USA it's more often still in the same state.
It's not a meme, it's the harsh reality for many in the West. Not just the US.
And you're what's called an outlier.
I applied for a loan. I was told I don't have a high enough credit score by the bank. So now I'm paying rent instead of a mortgage.
Imma be honest, I'm not from the US so I have only a superficial knowledge of what a credit score is, but I'd reckon that's something you can affect, no?
Then why tf are you commenting at all???
That's like jumping into a support group and being like "damn that sucks have you tried not having that happen to you?"
If it doesn't apply to you why tf are you even here?
Seems like a humble-brag / flex / punching down to me. I don't buy that they are totally ignorant to what they are saying.
Then why tf are you commenting at all???
You must be really fun at parties.
You must be really fun at parties
Well, the only people I've known who say this phrase are idiots. So I guess we know what that makes you.
You must be really fun at parties
Well, the only people I’ve known who say this phrase are idiots. So I guess we know what that makes you.
Thank you for making my case.
Just saying that despite the memes it's completely possible for a normal dude to buy themselves a home. I believed the meme until I tried. The more people I get to try buying a house, the more people get to buy a house, making their lives better and landlords lives worse which is a great win-win in my books.
Why fall into despair when there are things you can do to help your situation is what I'd ask you, knowing full well you didn't answer the question I laid.
The problem is that you're being extremely naive and ignorant of the rapidly worsening material conditions the majority of people in the west are experiencing. Your suggestion that "there must be something you can do to improve things, why are you whining?" comes across as tone deaf and dismissive.
People are struggling to keep their bills paid, and most are doing everything they possibly can to try and improve their situation, yet are still failing to keep their heads above water. It's like someone is screaming "Help!! Help!! I'm drowning!!" and you're screaming back "I'm swimming just fine, isn't there something you can do to stay afloat? Why are you panicking?"
“there must be something you can do to improve things, why are you whining?”
If the "why are you whining" part is how it came across that's on me. I meant it more like, "there are always possibilities to improve upon your situation and that is always a better option than falling into hopeless despair which merely keeps you misery". And no I don't mean just get a fifth job lmaoo, but literally anything that's reasonable and realistic.
Nipping off anything off your budget so you can get 20 bucks saved a month is a better option than giving up on the dream of owning a house.
Unionizing for a better pay to get 20 bucks saved a month is perhaps a bit more provocative option but an extremely healthy one at that.
You get the jist. Like I said to the other fella in this comment tree, I've been reading into credit rating system during this convo and yeah I start to understand where the high emotions come from.
That $20 a month you're saving up dries up really quick when you get sick or hurt and have medical bills that can lead to debt. Most people in America can barley survive month to month, there is no saving. Not to mention saving $20 a month would take you 500 years to afford a cheap 120k house. You sound like someone who has never faced actual financial hardship beyond "I should eat out a little less".
there are always possibilities to improve upon your situation
This is the fundamental thing you're not getting: sometimes there's just not.
"Just save 20 bucks a months and you'll afford a house."
Are you serious?
Lowest prices I've seen for houses in Finland sits at about €200k.
Let's cut that in half. €100k.
20 bucks a month nets you €240 bucks.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're a lying piece of shit but, hey, maybe you knew a guy and bought some shit tier shack for that much.
Who knows, all I know is your math doesn't add up.
Lowest prices I’ve seen for houses in Finland sits at about €200k.
Please look more before spreading misinformation.
Who knows, all I know is your math doesn’t add up.
For sure, since I literally said that by saving 20 bucks a month for a year anyone can buy a house lmao. I wonder what giving up on your dreams have ever done for you? I know exactly what it's done for your landlord though
You just said you don't know the US housing market or what a credit score is but you feel confident in saying people can just buy themselves a home.
Also the more people that buy houses the less supply there is, which means there's more demand, so house prices go up even more.
Yes, people can just fix it. And depressed people should just be happy. And sick people should just eat healthy and work out. You are beyond naive.
You just said you don’t know the US housing market
In this comment you state you've read my every comment, yet I missed this one, care to point it out for me? Throughout the convo I was looking for dope houses on the market, many of which were totally in the range of around 150k. That one guy bought a big lot for less than 50k.
Anyway you sent like 100 comments over the night, mostly with points I've already addressed so I'm not gonna reply to most of them. I am perplexed about the perceived hostility towards me, surely your landlord is happy knowing full well their walking-talking rainy day fund is out there defending them and making sure the situation never changes. Buying into this doomer-propaganda is exactly what lets your Lord to live a happy and fulfilling life. Make no attempt to change it.
But in all seriousness, I know how nice it is to crawl into misery and feel defensive when someone tries to nudge you out. I've never felt THAT defensive but despair is very addictive. I'm just saying that if there are things to do to improve you life and reach your goals, you are probably better off doing them rather than sperging out on randoms online.
You're being a cheerleader at the edge of rapids butthurt because your chant of "be aggressive" isn't actually helping the drowning people feel better.
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Never said I read every comment you made, I said "reading all these comments" which is very diffent.
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I didn't send 100, it was like 3. Yes you addressed them, just extremely poorly, so I called them out again.
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I'm not defending any landlord, I'm just calling out your naive and uninformed statements. You even admit to ignorance on topics you're speaking to. I own a house guy, I don't know what angle you're trying to play lol.
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I'm not in any sense of despair, like I said I own a house I love. You're problem is you assume, just like you assumed I have a land lord and don't own a house. You assume people have just given up, you can't even fathom the concept that it is unattainable. You have this boomer mindset of "if you work hard enough anything and everything is possible" which ignore reality and the very real obstacles it has.
- Lmao keep dodging boy
- I mean, considering you are literally making up claims, it's hard to address anything without resorting to same
- You're only defending the stuff landlords want you to defend
- I'd ask for sources on that too, but knowing you, you'd just say I said it without backing it up with a source.
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knowing full well you didn’t answer the question I laid.
They never answer the question you asked them, instead they just yell at you, telling you how bad you are for asking the question.
Why wont you improve your life is a question that makes me bad?
Affect, sure. In the same way that one can affect having rich parents who support you, thus making it easy to be rich yourself.
Being poor is fucking expensive, and the credit score system is a big part of that.
The credit score system is the yoke upon which the millennial/zennial generation has been shackled while Gen X and Boomers ride the wagon of home ownership and comfortable living due to not having to deal with that bullshit in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.
I was born in 1971. I can't speak for all of Gen X, but my experience growing up in the 80s is that I was presented with "everything's fine, you just need to get a job and it'll all work out." So that's what I did, and got nowhere fast. Married too early to the wrong person because pooling our resources seemed to be the only way out, then still struggled to get anywhere. Everything pointed to "I guess we're just not trying hard enough." Follow this with depression, divorce, working multiple jobs at a time to keep a roof over my head...
I think plenty of Gen X were just on the the earlier edge of the wave that became what it is today.
Idk if that's a passive or active you, but anyway that level of effect sounds quite large, maybe folk should find ways to make their credit rating better.
But I restate I have no clues as to the inner workings of this "credit rate" and if it's indeed impossible or otherwise unrealistic to effect, I'm willing to grab an implied L on that one.
You positively affect your credit rating over long periods of time by taking out loans and paying them back. If no one will loan you anything, you can't affect your score. If you can't pay the loans back, it damages your score.
What happens if you don't take loans at all before applying for a mortgage/house loan? You're just at like a N/A rating?
Then they just deny you for "lack of credit history".
That's just kind of nonsensical, isn't it better for someone to not have needed a loan before? To me that seems like the more mature creditor compared to someone who's pulling credit constantly, regardless how well they pay it back.
That indeed does seem to suck, apologies for having to deal with a system as shit as that sounds.
You have to take loans and make financially risky maneuvers to prove you can pay back the bank (which incidentally is covered by FDIC, unlike the average person).
if you never take loans or use credit cards, your score won't be very good. you have to prove that you can take on debt and repay it, not just that you can be responsible with your money (by, for example, never taking debt).
That sounds unfathomably stupid.
Yuh we need you to take these small credit loans constantly, to build your way up to bigger loans. Having to take small loans all the time is actually a sign of a healthy financial situation lmaoo
I mean if I'd have to choose between giving money to someone who's never before had to take a loan vs someone who lives from credit to credit, I'd choose the first guy any day.
I didn't have issues so why would anyone have issues? Isn't everyone's life, opportunities, and circumstances just like mine? Jesus dude, really?
How much did you save in that year and what are your monthly costs?
I plugged my numbers into a mortgage calculator while back and I'd have to save like 20% of the total cost to get the monthly payments low enough. I have an okay salary and I'm still not making enough to do that in a year.
I can't remember the exact figure, it was around 10k I had saved up, so roughly a third of what I had made that year. This was during covids lockdown phase, so I didn't really have anything to spend my money on other than a savings account. My monthly loan payment is between 700-800€, I was smart enough to get a fixed interest rate which was ridiculous at the time but a literal moneyprinter now.
You might be interested to know that in the European country where I live this is completely impossible. No bank here will give a loan to a single person with that income and only 10k euro saved.
Yeah reading all the comments by this user a lot of things sound a bit sus.
I know this may be difficult for you to understand, but a whole lot of people lost their jobs during Covid, and had even less to spend. That is why it was relatively easy for those with money to buy housing.
Saving isn't an option when your entire wage is spent before you make it, just to exist. Or when you aren't allowed to work because of external circumstances.
So you boght during a housing crisis where people were losing their jobs and the economy was in shambles.
The average rent in America is $1700. Congrats on finding a house where the mortgage is half of the average American's rent.
Yes, but I missed your point unfortunately. Price of houses soared during Covid, I thought it was common knowledge. If anything I bought it at the wrong time.
Yeah, that's about what the figure I came up with was. Oh well I'll keep throwing money away on rent I guess.
Alright mate, I hope for you to someday pass the obstacles in your way. Wishing all the best to you!
Congrats on your success though. Didn't mean to sound bitter towards you if it came off that way.
You didn't mate, it's all good, and I don't consider myself successful for saving money for a year. It appears to have been on a bit of an easy-mode.
Feel like emotions are high here, and I've been looking into this credit rating system during this convo and I kinda start to understand the emotions coming off.
Possible and feasible are two different things. It's possible for everyone in America to buy a house, there is no law against it, but it's not feasible for everyone to. This concept of "you just need to work harder and you can" is the brain dead, privileged AF fallacy this is calling out.
Just need a small loan from your father for a million dollars, right?
Addressed this earlier, I mean I don't blame you for not picking it up it's since grown into a quite a comment tree. But no, my parents are doing average and I'm getting none of the average other than the socks they get me for christmas.
It's entirely possible you'll be an olympic figure skater in your 20s too.
For sure, but that would take an unreasonable amount of work and effort so I wouldn't compare the two.
but that would take an unreasonable amount of work and effort
and your hesitation in comparison because of said difficulty is precisely the reason i did.
I feel like maybe there's a language barrier or you hate the joke, dunno. The comic works because buying a house is harder than in the past and trying to convince some people of that is often impossible. Rather than understand, some people seem almost like they would rather not understand.
If you keep looking, you might find one of those folks yourself
The comic works because buying a house is harder than in the past and trying to convince some people of that is often impossible.
I never argued it's as easy as it used to be. I mean, I didn't buy a house when I was a baby, but my parents did (when I was a baby, not them) and they didn't have any issues afaik. I surely had to work way harder than they ever did for a home that was arguably worse in quality and I never said otherwise.
The comic to me seems to imply the idea that to buy a home you'd have to do something ridiculous and unreasonable (such as letting your dad die earlier), which isn't the case. It is more ridiculous and less reasonable than it used to be, I'm not arguing that at all.
Depending on where you live it is almost impossible
Are you somehow magically bound to the place you live right now? My point never was that you could work at walmart for a year slipping tips down your sock until you can reach the downpayment for your malibu villa, if you don't mind me exaggerating.
Not magically. Financially, socially, practically. Moving is expensive, viable places to live may shred your social connections, assuming your profession exists where you want to go.
Don't pretend moving is easy on any level. No, you didn't explicitly say that it was, but you implied it. Hiding behind semantics like you're doing is very bad faith.
Just FYI I'm not the smart-ass type a poster with whom you have to write those disclaimers at the end for, though I can relate to the need to do so lol. If I have misread something - which I've done - I've noted it.
Moving isn't "easy" per se, but it was far from impossible. There are always folk to make friends with, even if you move to the county some other commenter said had "4/5ths of the population afraid of the gays taking their guns", which I found funny, it leaves with 1/5th of the people who seem nice enough to talk to. I do admit here that I come from a country where a call to someone per year is considered high social activity. Financially, it paled in comparison to the house itself and for all I know could be lumped as an insignificant factor to the cost of the house. Unless you get a friend with a van and some elbow grease which cuts costs substantially. Now the practicality-problems I do admit wholeheartedly I fucking hate packing and unpacking, but you have to do that regardless of how far you're moving.
You're partially correct. There are plenty of people for whom it is difficult but not impossible. The finances often seem more insurmountable than they are (said as someone who's purchased two houses before I was 30. I'm very lucky).
That said, being poor is expensive (See: Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness). Hard to put up a down payment when you can barely afford to eat, which is a reality for a lot of people. One setback (like your shitty car finally giving up) will lock you in wherever you are more often than not. And even for the more fortunate, things like what you just mentioned become a serious reality. It's all well and good to point at affordable homes in the country, but that 4/5 of the population you mentioned has a habit also being the kind that "don't like your kind around here" on the subject of the gays (said as a gay man who grew up in such places). Be happy that you only have such a consideration as an annoyance, not something that could kill you. I am not being hyperbolic.
The argument "just move" is often made from a privileged position. Doesn't make anyone a bad person to not have experienced such hardship, but it does tend to point to a person not realizing the enormity of the task they are glibly asserting as an option. For the people that have, it comes across as arrogant and blind (not necessarily that you are that).
Thanks for the level-headed response my dude.
I am completely aware that nothing is more expensive than being poor. But if I can nitpick just a bit, I would never have my day-to-day life be reliant on a car. I personally don't own a car because I don't want to be reliant on it, it costs like a bag of cocks and car-brainism is a disease. I just walk from place to place, it's cheap as shit and keeps you in shape. And yes, I've also lived in the sticks, and yes, I still walked. But on that note yeah, something like an accident that leaves you immobilized for a while or something is quite destructive financially. Though, I'd call that more of an outlier than myself.
And yeah I'm white straight cis myself, the country fellas would prolly like me tbh, and am not really in touch with the realities of the yeehaw-lifestyle. I find it difficult to believe some folk actually care about anyone's sexuality, but I doubt I'm alone on that. It's not really an experience I'd feel comfortable commenting further on so I'll take an L on that, but there must be cheap places to live in the US that don't necessarily involve being hunted down for your lifestyle preferences.
Ok boomer
It really is a disgrace this comment came so late. I was expecting it much earlier.
Me too given how spot on it is.
with the help of your wealthy parents as cosigners and an income of $150k a year or more
I have no cosigners on my loan and my parents aren't all that wealthy, not that it matters unless you count the socks I get each christmas as a gift from them large enough to warrant such financial relief.
And I make around 30k a year (4-day workweek btw, excluding summer months) and am single.
Like I said I too was surprised at how easy it was, literally try it before knocking. Though admittedly interest rates were much easier a few years back when I applied for the loan, so that probably changes your mileage.
Silly us, if course your personal experience is a more valuable data point than years of tracking on home prices vs incomes 🙂
Just adding context to it all, buying a house is entirely possible without too much effort and I doubt many of the doomers here have actually tried to own a home. I get the sentiment and how easy it is to fall to despair but try it before you knock it.
If that motivational speech doesn't get your gears on a roll, let me remind you that by paying rent you are literally feeding the parasites known as landlords, rewarding them for fucking you over, and positively reinforcing that leechy lifestyle they live. Make an effort to be your own lord and fuck yourself over.
Peace
What is "too much effort" to others is definitely not the same as "too much effort" to you.
Are you above the median income for your age group? If so then your not too much effort could easily be way too much effort for more than half the people in your age group.
Checked the stats and I did slightly less than median income of my age group then (~2500€/month vs a median of 2966€/month). And honestly my effort was to home cook as much as I could and not spend money on things I didn't need. The unironic boomer-tips I know, but it worked.
Maybe my distaste for avocado toast was enough in the end.
As someone who just bought a house this year. I think your case is an outlier. My wife and I make decent money, and didn't want anything too big. But it still took 3+ years of saving and living in a sketchy part of town just to get a down payment. As rent was increasing and the market was increasing. It would be entirely impossible for someone who is barely scraping by to afford a down payment on a house in a metro or suburb.
It'd be interesting to compare budgets. Not because I want to lecture anyone on avocado toasts and netflix subscriptions but I find it really difficult to figure out where your money goes. I mean I know folks in the US (which I assume yous are from) pay more in weird shit like insurances and stuff that's mostly granted by social services here, but my income is way lower especially compared to tax rate which provides those services. And just for reference my mates who want to own a house, own a house. Some of them are still moving a every now and then from town to town so it makes sense to stay on rent but yeah I started this thread on the point that it doesn't take much effort into getting a house.
Just like your attempt at winning an argument dude took the reigns and fucked himself over, people like this are the ones that rarely can take it on the chin, Jesus that's sad.
My man are you good? There is no argument, I'm not yelling at you for not being a houseowner or arguing for or against any philosophical or political ideology lmao. I'm just saying it's entirely possible to buy a home, while acknowledging that it's super easy to fall into despair like I did. If you choose to not try then don't, it's just sad to see you rather help your Lord to live a wealthier lifestyle.
Why you decide to be mad at me is something I really don't understand but it's fine.
Do the math - Median house price, median wage of a 20-something, median cost of living.
How would an average 20-something achieve this without assistance?
It's not impossible, but do you think that's what we should be shooting for as the leaders of the developed world - you win with intergenerational wealth or a snowball's chance in hell? Have a little more pride in your country and be less cucked by the interests of those that have ransacked the economy.
Have a little more pride in your country and be less cucked by the interests of those that have ransacked the economy.
I just pointed this out to someone else here, but how I see it, doomer-propaganda like this comic is exactly what keeps the status quo. Making young people scared enough to not even try to improve their situation is exactly what keeps their positions untouched.
I mean we here had this same type a sentiment shoved down our throats, press talking about how impossible it is for young people out there. That was true to me, until I tried out and learned that nah, it aint that bad. Badder than what it used to be, for sure, but not that bad at all.
If you look at the data, the problem is objectively not young people.
I'm about to buy a house in a market where median property value has risen 6x faster than median income since the 70s, meaning I'm being lectured by people who took out a 30 year mortgage to pay off what I'll have to drop as my deposit (relative to median income). I'm also bidding against the beneficiaries of that capital growth now that they're downsizing, and my generation's survival relies on us paying to correct the environmental vandalism they've done too.
This is intergenerational class war that's stomping the brakes on the economy as the majority pours everything they have into keeping a roof over their heads. I'm glad you managed it, but things are dark, and we should be doing better.
Thanks for the good comment!
If you look at the data, the problem is objectively not young people.
Never said it was.
I’m about to buy a house in a market where median property value has risen 6x faster than median income since the 70s
Glad that's on you radar and you seem committed to it! But is it necessary to buy a property from exactly where the prices have skyrocketed like that? Maybe you do due to work-related issues or something that I don't know and doesn't really concern me, but it's something to think about. Though the folk in this thread have made it look like Finnish property prices have stagnated since the war, that is not the case it some areas where the pricing is absurd but I just didn't move there, simple as.
I’m also bidding against the beneficiaries of that capital growth now that they’re downsizing
That's true and I wish you the best of luck in beating them. Just think of the mad landlord who got fucked over by a millennial scrub and you'll get to sleep your nights good.
This is intergenerational class war
I wouldn't perhaps go that guillotinie on it, but yeah, what motivates me is causing trouble and havoc among the people I dislike, landlords being one of them. And if I won the bidding war for this house against someone looking to rent it, I know my cock will stay hard for years to come, and I can't wait to do it again, and I will no matter what encourage people to try to do it too.
I bought a shitty house in shitty Toledo for $48k with zero down and a $13/hr job in 2007. I was roughly 22 at the time.
This is probably not possible today.
48k is a bargain though. I mean I checked google maps and yeah Toledo looks kinda ass (sorry Toledoans) but that's a steal especially considering it was the boom before -08 bust. Prolly could've got a nice subprime to along with it.
That’s interesting because at the time, I knew the housing market was falling, and it felt like it was at the bottom when I bought. Previous the same house had been valued at near 70k.
It turns out that shitty places like Toledo were foreshadowing the crash.
The next year in 08, the market value of the house got as low as $25k
If Toledoans could read they'd be so mad right now...
I actually read more about it, and Toledo has an airbase, which naturally makes it based. Currently looking to move to Toledo
It is definitely possible you just have to break in to a high-paying career and dedicate your entire life to working