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New products:
- AMD Ryzen 300 13" motherboards
- Translucent bezels (just 13"?) and expansion cards
- ITX desktop
- 12" 2-in-1 convertible
Not too exciting for me, personally.
I can't recall anyone ever asking FW for a desktop PC. It's like the one modern electronics product that's already modular. And it looks like they're selling them with mobile processors only also, which, why?
As for the convertible, there's no AMD option?
Nor did I see any details regarding pricing, and their website is 404'd to hell.
E: Got into the website, still no pricing available for 12" convertibel.
Yea, I don't see the point of the desktop, but it sounds more like they are pushing it towards AI servers for the small players.
It's a great compute box and small form factor gaming machine. Perfect for supplementing a server with some local AI performance or using it as a living room gaming PC. Definitely not something everyone needs, but me and the friend I watched this with are already each planning to get one.
I would definitely have considered the Framework desktop in my younger days, when I didn't want a laptop, but the smalles desktop possible. But in what Framework do and is known for, I think it's a bit meh.
That's reasonable, but unfortunately, soldered memory will probably become more and more common. Apple Silicon and now these AMD chips have shown that it is genuinely much more capable. This performance would not be possible without it.
Framework still ensured the desktop is as repairable as possible in every way that they can control. It will undoubtably be more repairable than other ITX PCs in the same class. I've worked on some ITX PCs in the past, and some of them are HELL to repair. Even a lot of full sized prebuilds are really frustrating to repair. Many Dell and HP desktops use proprietary parts, making repair expensive.
soldered memory will probably become more and more common
at least if you want to extract every bit of performance.
Patel noted on LTT that they tried to get modular ram on there, but it's just not possible. The signal integrity is not holding up
but it's just not possible
I mean it's probably "not possible" to convince AMD to engineer it for the few of us that actually care. There are other comparable socketable technologies.
The thing is that companies will want to extract more performance, so customers may eventually lose the option. I hope not, but I do see it as a possibility.
It will be an absurdly expensive gaming machine that's not repairable or upgradeable. You could get one with equivalent performance that is repairable and upgradeable for half the price.
The 1k version of this system will still be damn capable for gaming. Genuinely how many prebuilt ITX PCs will compete at that price? Also, it's only the RAM that can't be upgraded. They will likely sell replacement main boards in the future, the same as with the laptops. Not being able to carry over RAM is disappointing, but I've personally never upgraded my CPU without also upgrading my motherboard.
Genuinely how many prebuilt ITX PCs will compete at that price?
...all of them? Did you look at the gaming performance? Not that impressive. My old 6800XT build will blow that thing outta the water.
it's only the RAM that can't be upgraded
The GPU cannot be upgraded either, which is kind of a big deal...
And I can't find a new prebuilt 6800XT at this price, much less one in an ITX case.
That is true thought, don't know why I didn't process that. It's still a solid option in my eyes for a small, fairly portable gaming pc.
You're not going to because this GPU is several years old. But you could easily buy it and build a used one.
I don't think it's a good option and I don't think they'll sell many of them. But I also don't understand this whole MiniPC craze so maybe I am just irrelevant.
even used I only found this GPU for around d400-500. you're gonna be skimping on other parts there, definitely won't have the CPU power of this device.
Mini PCs aren't for everyone, but for people who have a reason to get them, this is great.
How is it not repairable or upgradeable? They said that other than the fact that the CPU/GPU and RAM are integrated on the motherboard, everything is using standardized components. Other than the integrated memory, that is no less repairable/upgradeable than a Framework laptop.
How is it not repairable or upgradeable?
the CPU, GPU and RAM are integrated on the motherboard
You obviously can't upgrade any of these, and if any individual component fails you have to pretty much throw away the entire computer.
For inference (running previously-trained models that need lots of RAM), the desktop could be useful, but I would be surprised if training anything bigger than toy examples on this hardware would make sense because I expect compute performance to be limited.
Does anyone here have practical recent experience with ROCm and how it compares with the far-more-dominant CUDA? I would imagine that compatibility is much better now that most models are using PyTorch and that is supported, but what is the performance compared to a dedicated Nvidia GPU?
ROCM is complete garbage. AMD has an event every year that "Pytorch works now!" and it never does.
ZLUDA is supposedly a good alternative to ROCM but I have not tried it.
Thanks for the comment. I have had exposure to similar claims, but wasn't seeing anyone using AMD GPUs for AI unless they were somehow incentivized by AMD, which made me suspicious.
In principle, more competition in the AI hardware market would be amazing, and Nvidia GPUs do feel overpriced, but I personally don't want to deal with the struggles of early adoption.
I think the main thing with the desktop is that it's a release platform for AMD's new chip (the board is also available by itself), and that the high memory bandwidth is good for machine learning
If they had marketed it purely at AI I wouldn't be so concerned but they also marketed it as a gaming machine, which it would be terrible for.
The new Ryzen Ai APU has a surprisingly great iGPU. It is a lot bigger than the default size.
Sure, it's a great iGPU. That's like saying it's the fastest golf cart in a Top Fuel race. It doesn't matter.
Not true anymore actually, the AI Max 395 is basically on par with a 4060.
Yes it is. The 4060 is a bottom-tier last-gen card.
the fps numbers from the event make it seem to be around the 6700xt/6800xt level of performance (ofc marketing so it's prolly a bit lower but still), iGPs these days are not what you remember from 5 years ago
I am not remembering anything. I looked at the numbers they posted. They're not impressive as compared to a dedicated GPU.
Desktops are usually modular, but at that price, with that chipset, and in an ITX form factor, you are not getting something remotely repairable from other companies.
Actually, you aren't getting anything, because nobody is selling a desktop with that chipset for this price.
nobody is selling a desktop with that chipset for this price
Not yet, but it's still very new. There's only one other product you can buy with that chip that I know of, but there will be more, especially by the same this device actually becomes available for delivery.
True, it may change, but it's still very likely those devices will be less repairable than Frameworks desktop.
I suspect that the PC was mostly made because AMD offered to let them release a fancy CPU and they wanted to make a product that would hopefully get a different audience to hear about them. Given the emphasis that it's just a PC, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't bother making new parts for it down the line unless it sells well enough that it can fund them continuing to make a PC line. Since, as they repeatedly pointed out, it's all standard connections, it's not a problem if they stop releasing new parts, unlike their other product lines.
The convertible will probably take a year or two to shake off the rough edges, same as the 13 and the 16 have/are still doing, I'm interested to see how it does down the line once it's been out for a while and they've had time to respond to user feedback.
- They mentioned something to the effect of that chip being preferable for AI because of how its 128 GB of memory is so tightly integrated directly into the processor. I don't know much about AI, but that seems to be the only use this thing has going for it over the alternative. Also, I don't think they mentioned anything about it, but it looked like its case had at least two expansion card slots. Though that is far from revolutionary compared to a standard mini ITX PC you could build yourself.
- Nope, convertible was only mentioned to be 13th gen Intel.
- I do not recall prices being revealed for any of the other products, but the Desktop came in three SKUs, costing something like 1099-1999 USD.
Yeah, the processor itself is a big deal, but that processor will also be available in a myriad of other products, and the Framework one will be no more repairable or upgradeable. So they're not really bringing anything special to the table in that regard.
convertible was only mentioned to be 13th gen Intel.
I don't even understand why they even bother to make them available at all with Intel. They've been left in the dust for years by AMD. Who is buying these?
They did mention their price being very competitive, so that is probably how they intend to differentiate it from other products with the same processor.
There's a LTT video that popped up and it does look like they're aiming for another very budget device. They said "definitely" under $1k which doesn't really tell us much.
@Ulrich @SatyrSack I’m more interested in the chassis honestly, if it can be used with any ITX motherboard
There are a dozen ITX chassis like this already available.
There is also the new one key module for hopefully new community designs on input modules for the framework laptop 16.
And a keyboard with a Framework logo instead of a Windows logo! While the Framework 16 had an option for a "Super" key, that is entirely new for Framework 13
