I wonder which one is harder
I wonder which one is harder
Edited to be slightly more fair to people complaining that they don't think genocide is good just fine
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This guy does literally nothing but tell people how Democrats are awful people (and implies you shouldn't vote for them)
TONS of posts like that.
I really wouldn't be surprised to find out he's Russian.
No-one is supporting genocide. If people don't vote for Biden (and even if they do, the popular vote might not be enough), Trump will win.
The only case where saying "don't vote for Biden" would be if Trump was actually a better, smarter, more emphatic president, and would use the US's power to instantly stop helping Israel.
And who exactly thinks that's even possible in any scenario or even parallel universe?
Not voting for Biden would be like being a pro-Hitler British person in 1939.
He's a voter suppressionist actively trying to get Trump elected under a thin veneer of guilt and shame. He's appealing to people that haven't been paying attention and think the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians started right after October 7th, rather than in 1948. By doing this tries to claim that American support of genocide is brand new thereby absolving himself and others of the guilt associated with it, unless of course they also support The Genocide™ by voting for Joe Biden.
More importantly he can claim that Joe Biden is the only presidential candidate that supports The Genocide™, so vote for someone else and you won't be supporter of The Genocide™. The quiet part is that Trump never supported The Genocide™ because it never happened until Biden was president.
Don't pretend nothing changed after October 7 or that there aren't candidates like Jill Stein and Cornell West who oppose the genocide.
Lol okay.
Every time people bring up Jill Stein and Cornell west as serious candidates it makes me ask how they expect either to get 270 electoral college votes. So I'll ask you, the serious progressive advocating for Jill Stein and Cornell West, how does either one of them get 270 electoral college votes? Hopefully you can do better than the last guy who's response was "just tell people their ideas and then get votes".
I also think its telling you couldn't even pick one candidate. You're convinced 3rd party candidates are our saviors but instead of picking ONE candidate to support, you take the shotgun approach and throw out a bunch of names and hope one of them sticks. There isn't even a single 3rd party candidate you support, but you're desperately telling me to pick one, any one, as long as it isn't Genociden Biden, because they oppose The Genocide™. Vote for anyone else and I'll be showing I don't support The Gencoide™ either.
Even if I were convinced that either of them could get elected, I am not convinced that either have the political capital to govern in an effective manner, much less change the course of America's support for Israel. So what you're really advocating for is for me to help Donald Trump get elected on the infinitesimal chance that a miracle candidate could get elected and then have no practical impact on Israels actions.
All that aside, little has changed since October 7th other than Putin's boy Benjamin Netanyahu seizing the opportunity to start a war that will keep him in power as long as it's going on.
What's even more important to Palestinians than the 40,000 or so dead Gazans is the day after the war. Will it result in full occupation and control of Palestinian territory by Isreal, which would be the final stages of the slow burn genocide. A plan which Trump endorses.
Or will it be a general withdrawal and return of Gaza to Palestinian control, which has the possibility of a two state solution. A plan that Biden says he supports.
Either way, Israel is a sovereign country with it's own hopes and ambitions. Any American president has only limited ability to impact their decisions. This election is a choice between using our little influence to push towards a two state solution or push towards full Israeli control of Palestinian territory.
lol okay. every time people say they don't know how someone gets 270 electoral college votes, it makes me ask if they know how electoral college votes are allocated. so i'll ask you: how do candidates earn electoral college votes?
i also think it's telling that you are condescending and dismissive toward your interlocutors, dredging out red herrings and smoke screens instead of dealing with what they actually said, and relying heavily on appeals to ridicule.
even if i were convinced you were engaging in good faith, i'm not convinced you could see past the bad faith propaganda you're regurgitating.
all that aside, no party owns the votes of any voter. it is the responsibility of the candidates to earn votes. voters are making it clear that they want the genocide to be stopped, and some candidates are making it clear they aren't going to do that, while others are making it a centerpiece of their campaigns.
100% astroturfing
Astroturfing is when someone is loudly disagreeing with me
Yup. These people honestly think… or, “honestly” think- that not voting is going to actually do something.
Now we have two scenarios to address here:
One:
They actually think in good-faith, that they are going to make a change. To emphasize- they actually think that doing nothing will cause something to happen. Which means… they are entirely unaware that someone will be elected with or without their help.
And-
Two:
They know damn well that a non-vote will help Trump and that is why they are here. There is clearly more evidence to support this being the case as you’ll never see them on any post critical of Trump, suggesting that people not vote for him. Nor do you see them arguing that Trump wouldn’t be a worse choice. Nope. They’re dead silent on the issue.
They don’t need to actively support Trump, or suggest people vote for him here as they know there are very few supporters of his on lemmy.
However, they DO know that conservatives show up to the booths to vote. In DROVES. All they need is to convince a small amount of people to stay home, and their boy wins the White House.
One of these two are correct. The problem is that everyone loses either way- and they don’t care.
if you vote for biden, you are voting for genocide
that seems kind of objectively true to me
you don't pick and choose which policies your candidate's vote goes towards it counts for all of them
If you vote for Biden, you are voting to limit Israel's genocidal warfare.
Lmao yes that is how I'd describe him obstructing the ICCs prosecution of it
I could obstruct the ICC with a wet paper bag ;)
But that's business as usual- he's still the only thing limiting Israel’s genocidal warfare, not that you really care about Palestinian lives or anything.
Why does anyone believe he's doing anything to limit jack shit? Every time someone so much as bats an eye at Israel he puts out a statement condemning antisemitism
Do you know what 'limit' means? I'm curious how you're struggling with this concept.
So that's a 'no' on understanding the concept of 'limit'... you're a fascinating specimen!
Unfortunately for you Israel has been committing genocide against the Palestinians since the 1948 Israeli/Arab war, and the United states has supported them since then. I guess if you want to pretend this is something new and Biden is the cause of The Genocide™ so you can feel better about yourself without actually making a difference then good for you. I applaud your mental gymnastics.
They are entirely unaware that Palestine even existed prior to October 7th.
me:
voting for a party enabling genocide is voting in support of genocide
you:
Unfortunately for you Israel has been committing genocide against the Palestinians since the 1948 Israeli/Arab war, and the United states has supported them since then. I guess if you want to pretend this is something new and Biden is the cause of The Genocide™ so you can feel better about yourself without actually making a difference then good for you.
also you:
I applaud your mental gymnastics.
You:
refraining from using my vote, so that Trump will win is the moral and reasonable course of action to help Palestinians, despite Trump being an insane fascist who's also Putin's little bitch
This person is completely fine to punish America if they don’t get their way. They are aware of the damage Trump will do to the LGBTQ+, to women’s rights, to education, to PALESTINE…. but they clearly don’t care.
If they can’t get their single issue addressed- they are willing to ruin an entire country so that they can stand in the wreckage and say
“I told you this would happen if you didn’t listen to me.”
palestinians are screwed either way, friend
Refraining from using your voice to say 'I don't want to vote for genocide, actually'
You:
if you vote for biden, you are voting for genocide
Me:
If you're a human being that exists in America you have supported genocide in some capacity, and voting for Biden doesn't mean you support it anymore than if you do not vote, voting 3rd party, or voting for Trump. America needs to fix its relationship with Israel and Palestine, but Joe Biden is no more culpable for what's happening in Gaza than any president before him, and he's light years ahead of the other main party candidate in his support for Palestinians. Your ability to place that blame solely on Joe Biden and people who support him involves an impressive level of mental gymnastics.
Hope that clears it up for you. If you mean something else I'd love to hear it.
If you're a human being that exists in America you have supported genocide in some capacity
America was founded on the genocide of native Americans, this is objectively true
Of course acknowledging that has always been a problem for Americans, but who knew stopping themselves from doing it again would be such a hard sell
Bazinga, got 'em
voting for Biden doesn't mean you support it anymore than if you do not vote
cool, but that's not what i said
i said voting for biden is voting in support of genocide
you might hate genocide, but objectively, voting for a candidate aggressively enabling genocide is voting in support of that genocide
the rest of your comment is just filler
Do you know who the candidates are? Who the other guy is?
The person whos promised to remove all climate actions and regulations on day one. A guy who is taking dick from Putin every night while screaming "harder daddy". A drooling megalomaniacal diaper wearing fascist, who supports Putin and Netanyahu.
You're not voting for genocide. You're not even voting for Biden. You're voting against Trump.
If you're an American with the right to vote and you don't vote Biden, you are directly supporting Trump, Putin, Netanyahu and other far-right leaders.
Have you ever heard of the trolley problem? You're online, so you should have. Do you know what's never the answer to those problems? "I walk away but also take no responsibility for allowing more people to die." Sorry, not an option. The lesson is that inaction is a choice with consequences.
So full of shit
Help! Your logic! It overwhelms!
Voting for Biden without trying to tell him he needs to stop supporting genocide will likely still result in him losing.
Weird how you didn't deny being a Russian instigator stoking division among progressives.
Because it's both unfalsifiable and deeply unserious
Yeah, sure. That's the reason.
It's just completely out of the realm of possibility to prove that you're not a Russian troll. /megasarcasm
Where'd you live?
Does it concern you a little bit, though, that I'm really American and there might be a lot more who think like me?
Fine, assume I'm a Russian troll if you want, but it'd be smart to at least pretend that there's a small possibility of there being a low turn out, and you should have a plan on how to address that.
The idea of actually caring that 2.3 million people are on the brink of starvation is so foreign to you that you have to conjure fantasies of Russian troll farms targeting Lemmy to explain away complaints.
I did that. I'm also going to vote against more genocide, done not just abroad but at home.
In the voting booth, there is no "no genocide" button. Your choices come down to "more genocide" and "less genocide", and you get to push towards one outcome or the other.
Personally, I'm going to take a brave stance against "more genocide", but if your principles keep you from engaging with the real options, well.
I'm sure the people who die who wouldn't have otherwise will forgive you.
I'm not worried about what I do in the voting booth, I'm worried about the 1.3% margin Biden won by in 2020