FFXIV @lemmy.world lorty @lemmy.ml 12mo ago

Is Endwalker really the worst expansion this game has ever had?

I'm late to this discussion, but I've been watching a few videos about this from content creators and I find this argument impossible to defend.

Taking ARR out (it's not really an expansion), you can't actually think EW is worse than HW. HW had much worse and less content and while the story, including the patches, was better, that era didn't have what people are complaining about now. Maybe less job homogenization, but also absolute dumpster tier jobs that people didn't play.

So yeah, things are a bit rough (specially now that a lot of new players are caught up), but the worst one? I can't agree with that.

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What. EW has been fantastic.
- I think so too, but some content creators have a very doomerish take on the expansion, which I find very odd.
  
  I can’t take Zepla seriously for anything she says after she spent so much time crying about being a victim over the Harry Potter game. Like she kind of sucks
  
  Ah, gamers with their hot takes. Don't these people generally base their "profession" around FFXIV? Like if you play any game religiously you'll run out of content sooner or later. Endwalker certainly has been a more relaxed expansion, and that clearly doesn't seem to be up these peoples alleys.
  
  Endwalker has had some fantastic quests, both MSQ and others. The Island Sanctuary is a nice side activity. The raids have been fun, at least from a casual perspective.
  
  They have these takes because it drives engagement from people who enjoy the content I think. It doesn't really make sense otherwise to me.
Stormblood is easily the worst expansion and it’s still very good. EW is amazing
Story-wise, I think it's fantastic.

Content-wise, I can understand the argument. To put it in perspective, think of what we used to have compared to what we have now.

In Stormblood, we had multiple new dungeons coming out per patch. Today it's just one per. I will concede, though, that we have Variant/Criterion Dungeons coming out to make up for the loss (can't even say that about Shadowbringers), but they're already dead content after the first few weeks of being out. And the rewards of Criterion do not justify the difficulty.

Stormblood and Endwalker both had comparable content with Alliance Raids, Normal Raids, a Deep Dungeon, and two Ultimates, but (aside from maybe the Ultimates) I can't help but feel like there was more effort put into the Stormblood content. Ivalice and Omega were very memorable.

Stormblood had a distinct Trial series, Endwalker just merged it into the MSQ. Not to say it's not good, but it doesn't feel like bonus content now that it's not optional.

Stormblood had Eureka to progress the relic weapon, and the Baldesion Arsenal was an amazing climax to it. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but there was a LOT of content. In Endwalker, instead of having a Eureka or Bozja to do, we've shoved the relic grind into Hildibrand, which is something we just used to do for fun. Yay?

Endwalker has an Island Sanctuary, which is nice. Stormblood didn't have that.

Perhaps more importantly, content droughts have never been this bad. We're in the final patch cycle of the expansion. So there's nothing else big coming between now and Dawntrail. When does Dawntrail come out again? Summer 2024, so that's at least...8 months from now? So the wait begins.
- Stormblood had Eureka to progress the relic weapon, and the Baldesion Arsenal was an amazing climax to it. Sure, it wasn’t perfect, but there was a LOT of content. In Endwalker, instead of having a Eureka or Bozja to do, we’ve shoved the relic grind into Hildibrand, which is something we just used to do for fun. Yay?
  
  I mean, Hildibrand is just the unlock. What you actually do for the relic is... whatever. It's just tomestones.
  
  This makes me wonder something though: We did get a new "grind place", it's not a Bozja or Eureka, but it's a PotD/HoH. It gives tomestones. You can perfectly state that you can grind that to grind your relics. It'll give you the relics eventually. Or you could even go to lvl80 Bozja to grind them. Or do dungeons. Or savage raids. Or whatnot.
  
  The fact that now without the reward forcing you to go into a grind place, very few players do, makes me wonder why people remember these places fondly. They clearly don't want to do them, or they would as their preferred way of obtaining their rewards now that they have multiple ways of getting them. But yet even though people went in there out of necessity not desire, they have fond memories of it. Shared hardships of utterly boring grind content, maybe?
I honestly thing Stormblood is the worst flow wise but none of the expansions are bad to me they've all been worth playing and I have enjoyed playing them. They've had impactful moments and pretty sweet stuff to do.

People who say x y or z expansion are bad are likely farming for engagement.
I felt like the main villain came out of nowhere, and completely dumpstered everything I was looking forward to story-wise.

I was excited that we could finally take the fight to Garlemand, only to find out that it's been wiped out already.

I was excited to kick Zodiark's ass, only to find out that it's actually the last thing that was keeping the actual super secret bad guy in check this whole time.

I wanted to finally deal with the Ascians once and for all, not learn about a little bird girl in the penultimate chapter of the third act that flies off into space and throws a tantrum.

I was expecting Zodiark to be the final boss. It would have been AWESOME if Hydaelyn was. Instead we had to learn about some character that's never been referenced before, that we spend 1 zone learning about her entire back story before having to go fly off and slap her around. There wasn't enough time to even care about this character, let alone feel bad about putting it down like we were supposed to.

At that point, the main story was over, and the patches were starting a lead up into whatever new story arc is happening next, so I've been on a break ever since.
- On the flip side, excluding Garlemald because I think that genuinely was a missed opportunity,
  
  I think it’s really cool how they structured the expansion.
  
  All the teasers and such hyping up the stuff with zodi, only for that to be the level 83 trial, felt like it built a lot of hype mid story. We (my group) went into that feeling a lot of mixed emotions, like what would happen next? We all expected that to be the finale, but things were just getting started.
  
  I wanted to finally deal with the Ascians once and for all,
  
  I think it’s cool what they did with Elpis. Like a more complete version of the Amaurot idea. At this point on the source, everything was going to complete shit with the Final Days (again, just like Amaurot) and everything was just feeling hectic and out of control. So stepping into Elpis was just…magical. Literal breath of fresh air. Seeing everything unfold and having the ancients further humanized was good.
  
  I can see what you’re saying with the character Meteion not being fleshed out really, but she also wasn’t precisely a character. She was in essence a grotesque experiment, like an Elpis Flower given a mind. I think in the end, that’s what broke Hermes so much. He believed so badly that he was different from his peers, that he was unique in understanding the suffering of their creations. But in his ignorance he subjected Meteion to an even more acute suffering, the kind reserved only for sentient beings. Despair.
  
  And in confronting this atrocity forged of his own hand, we see the man snap, and set into motion the foundational events of game’s entire lore. While Meteion the character was new, I really think of her as just being the mechanism through which the Final Days occurs, and Hermes is the real centerpiece of the story. In fighting her we are really just cleaning up his mess.
  
  That being said, your experience is valid, just offering one other perspective. The story definitely had some sloppy points throughout and some pacing and clarity issues as well, but I enjoyed it overall.
  
  I had actually never made the connection that Hermes was the weirdo Ascian that hung out in Garlemald with Zenos in the Shadoebringers cutscenes, and that now makes more sense to me.
  
  I really liked Elpis as a zone, but I think the game explicitly saying that Hermes wasn't Fandaniel yet during that zone made me mostly disregard it as a possibility for the future, so I was mostly just following around a guy and a bird lady I'd never met before. I honestly couldn't even tell you if he took the job after we kicked his teeth in, I was so done with that guy.
  
  I appreciate you mentioning this, though, and I wish that I could see the zone for the first time again with that understanding. =/
- I have the same issues. But I also found that they had ascians bloviate more.
  
  Just random sentences of philosophical nonsense. Mostly this was in Hermes.
  
  For example, what he wants to say "I went against the conclave to figure out things"
  
  What he says, " DOES THE BUTTERFLY YEARN TO FLY KNOWING ITS LIFE IS SHORT. WILL THERE BE A COMING DAY, WHERE THOUST DREAM WITH ME. WHO CAN WALK WHO HATH NOT CRAWLED THROUGH THE DARKEST NIGHTS. WHEN A CREATION DREAMS OF AETHYRIC SHEEP ARE THEY NOT REAL"
  
  Not literally what he said but.. it felt like long sentences of hyperphilosophic filler. I could be wrong, but it's what I remember.
  
  Ultimately, I wish they spent longer building up Meteion. Also, I really didn't care for or enjoy the old final fantasy story rehash. Though I do get its important.
  
  I agree that Meteion being built up more would have helped. Maybe even just having had references in a previous expansion.
  
  Hell, we could have found out stuff in the First during Shadowbringers, since Meteion's song is what lead to the split happening in the first place.

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