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Philosophy to the rescue

Disclaimer: we still have pragmatic reason to follow the evidence suggested by our best scientific theories. I'm just poking fun at scientists in the spirit of Hume. There's no guarantee that the future will resemble the past, and even our best scientific theories are amenable to future evidence.

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  • Except this isn’t a criticism of the scientific position…

    We absolutely do not expect our instruments and our math to be reliable in the future. Literally everything about science is done with the understanding that we’re still figuring things out and that our tools and models will change as we learn more, and that we will learn more as our tools and models change. The problem isn’t posting a philosophical meme, the problem is that it’s a bit ass-backward.

    Evolutionary ecology and multilevel selection theory have undergone massive changes just in the course of my career. I remember when the news that mitochondria and chloroplasts had their evolutionary origin as independent and then symbiotic organisms really started to penetrate public awareness. I remember when evolutionary developmental biology started to pick up steam. There’s far too many books about all of those kinds of things and new papers being written every day. That’s not even touching on the world-view changing developments in physics, material sciences, social sciences, and so on. We update our models as we learn - that is what learning is.

    • Fair enough, I concede that the meme falsely portrays scientists as being unaware of this limitation. But maybe that's where the humor comes in; although I don't think many people see the meme as funny. Maybe I should have used a different format...

  • For these kind of pedantic complaints about the scientific method, I just propose an experiment where I push a boulder off a cliff they’re standing under and see what they think about repeatable, demonstrable evidence.

  • Why would any scientist worth their salt be mad about that? Science is constantly trying to find new things that may disprove old things, that's basically half of the point (the other half is the discoveries made along the way).

    There are only very few things out there where scientists are sure they will never change and for all of those we know for a fact that they cannot change, like the fundamental axioms of math.

    • Fair enough, the meme wrongly implies that scientists don't know about this uncertainty or would be mad to learn about it. That said, my impression is that most scientists, even if they are aware, are not philosophically inclined enough spend time thinking about it. Which is why we still have a philosophy department.

  • I'm probably in the Hume camp of skepticism and I like this meme :)

  • The fuck does this even mean? Does it try to imply that the specific equipment used for science has to keep working indefinitely?

    Science is better if use many different sets and types of equipment. Sometimes we discover the equipment was flawed, or less capable than one could hope for.

    • Don't post philosophy memes here, got it lol. Well, I can't say this reception is entirely unexpected.

      • Philosophy memes are cool, in fact I'd love to see more of those. Philosophy memes that incorrectly make fun of other branches of science, not so much. Let's get some Plato's Cave in here, or make fun of Freud saying one thing but meaning your mother. Let's not try to delegitimize other branches of science by pointing out solipsism.

        To be fair though I do think it's fun to have conversation around this matter, like discussing Brain-in-a-vat theory, where you can just accuse your opponent of being increasingly less real as the discussion goes on. But in the modern age of mis- and dis-information, you have to be careful how you approach those subjects. In this particular example it seems like you're calling out the scientific method as Fake News, and while it's a bit funny, it's also a hot button topic for folks these days and will frequently be taken the wrong way because tons of idiots have ruined it for you long before you made this meme. Let's please not give people another reason to distrust hard science.

      • Its a pretty poor philosophical premise. Math by its nature is reliable mainly from its abstract nature. For it to become unreliable would require upheavals in reality. If you pick up one of something and put it in an empty box and pick up one more and put it in and the box contains anything but two then we have lost object permanence. As for instruments they have had issues with reliability and improvements or new instruments are made. Im not even talking about technical things but the metric system originally relied on some model artifacts kept in France but it was recognized that even the stable platinum–iridium it was made of does degrade over long periods and the SI standard that evolved from it measures everything utilizing the fundamental constants of nature and if this proved unreliable (and to be clear they moved to SI when seeing the difference in the model artifact took our most sensitive instruments) then it would again change. Science is not a religion and it will change based on any more accurate methods or information that it gets.

  • Dude, like, math is the only thing that I'm confident to say will stay the same in a million years. You could have picked any other example, like biology or even chemistry, but picking math for saying "things could change in the future" is one of the worst (if not the worst) example you could make.

  • You should google "calibration"

  • I think about this a lot. There are places you see this logical flaw that are actually more concrete. A good example is retirement accounts. There is an implicit assumption that even safe investments will go up in the long term.

26 comments