Privacy Respecting Ring Doorbell Equivalent?
Privacy Respecting Ring Doorbell Equivalent?
I couldn't find a post in this community about cameras so I figured I'd make one. Requirements:
- No "sign up" required to record video
- Video is stored locally
- Video is in a non-propriatary format
- Can work offline
Optional/Discussion Points:
- Can wireless connectivity be hardware disabled
- Can auto-update be disabled
- Does the device try to "phone home" if it is connected to wifi
- Disk encryption would be nice but I doubt that'll be an option for anything other than self-hosted stuff
Does anyone know about Lorex (it seems more privacy centered)?
I'm highly technical, so feel free to mention self hosted raspberry pi soltuions as well.
if you’re this concerned about the privacy of your doorbell camera then make your own solution with a raspberry pi. then you’re in full control of the device and data.
anything else can be updated to send video elsewhere, promise privacy features it doesn’t have, be bought out and shareholders demand data mining, or be hacked.
I mean I can and I agree, I was kinda curious if there was a kit or a software stack for it (kinda like next cloud). I did also want this post to have a list of options+tradeoffs but I probably should've done a better job communicating that.
I guess maybe the raspberry pi question would be a better for the self hosted community.
Which is once again, the reason why understanding your threat surface properly so that you set up security enclaves which let you get value from cloud services without sacrificing privacy is more important than ever. Honestly, these posts frustrate me a bit. People are going to give up real, tangible security benefits of these modern security services over the spectre of relatively minor privacy issues which can be almost entirely mitigated with some pretty simple best practices that anyone interested in security should be doing anyway.
Alerts, notifications, person recognition, object recognition, motion detection, two way audio, automated lights, event based video storage, 24/7 video storage, automated deletion of stale recorded video, and more can all be accomplished 100% locally.
Granted, much of this functionality is not easily accomplished without some technical knowledge and additional hardware. However, these posts typically are made by people who state to at least have an interest in making that a reality (as this one does).
What security benefits does a cloud service provide?
Reolink has a doorbell camera that works even with no internet, and can record locally both to SD or to an NVR. No sign up is required.
This. I went reolink specifically for this reason. Everything is local only on the SD card and quality is great.
This is what I went with. For those reading who don't know how to disable the Internet for their device but still bring able to access it, look into setting up a VLAN to accomplish this.
I’ve been looking for something like this as well. I’ve not bought the hardware yet, but I’m planning to track down a “dumb” IP camera and use an RPi to host a DVR software. Anything that allows you to record to anything but a home server is a service I can’t trust. Right now, the problem seems to be tracking down the camera itself. There’s tons of ~$20 cameras I’m finding but it’s hard to tell which ones phone home to the internet and which ones are local only.
unifi doorbell does this. you are not required to connect it to the internet. it is wifo only though (the doorbell itself)
All unify systems phone home.
I was going to suggest the same. My understanding is it's pretty secure but does phone home. The video is not uploaded and phoning home is for remote access and log in. It's expensive, though unless you're going to be using the other features.
https://smartsolutions4home.com/ss4h-sd-smart-doorbell/
There is a really cool looking diy one using a ESP32. You would need a server to go with it though. But using your own small HA server would give you way more control about storage / encryption.
Your options will depend on how much effort you are willing to put in and what other services you have access to (or are willing to run).
For example, do you have a Network Video Recorder (NVR) or something like Home Assistant that can consume a Real-Time Messaging Protocol (RTMP) or Real Time Streaming Protocol (RTSP) video feed? Can you modify your network to block all internet traffic to/from the doorbell? Are you comfortable using a closed source, proprietary app to setup the doorbell? Is creating your own doorbell feasible?
I'm not aware of a doorbell that you can buy which meets all of your requirements without at least one of the items I mentioned above. Additionally, I believe the only doorbell that meets all your requirements is building your own doorbell. However, some other brands that will get close to meeting your requirements are Reolink and Amcrest.
I always recommend Amcrest for anything related to cameras. Idk about the doorbell since I don't have that specifically, but the cameras are completely local (no cloud server acting as the relay) and no sign up required unless you use their home app (I use the view pro app to avoid signups).
Reolink doesn't require signups, but their cameras generally require internet from my experience, as they use their own cloud servers as relays, which would mean they can't work offline like you're wanting.
A RPi option is likely your best bet. I'm currently building my own setup using MotionEye and a few Pi Zeros. I'll be looking into different software since Motioneye is no longer updated though. Just FYI, I'd avoid the v3 camera module for now, as a lot of software doesn't support it yet and it can't use the legacy camera stack.
You could just get a doorbell and have a local camera with an 'on' event.
I'm trying to get some aspects of the smart home built out but its a lot of doing it myself.
As a tangent, for me the entire utility for this stuff is cloud integration and alerts. Otherwise the only use of the camera is sending your insurance company videos of the break-in. This is one of those places where I am willing to give up a bit of privacy in a controlled way for the ability to get alerts in real time in case I need to call emergency services while away from home. Or tell my wife the delivery driver left the gate open and to close it so the dog doesn't get out.
To be honest, if you have a good security framework to begin with, there's no reason why a ring camera is super dangerous.
You don't have to give up privacy for this, or voluntarily give your data to a giant corporation with a track record of abusing their customer's privacy and giving your video footage to police without your consent.
I have 5 Amcrest PoE cameras that have been configured to not "call home". The cameras have built-in web servers that allow you to configure them without being forced to install an app or make a cloud account.
All of the built in detection stuff has been turned off because the feeds from the cameras go to Frigate NVR, which does all of the detection stuff with the help of a Coral TPU. I have it running as an add-on to Home Assistant OS, but it can also run separately in a docker container.
Frigate is set to detect certain things, like "person", "car", "dog", etc. If it detects those things, it records a clip and takes a snapshot. Both are sent as notifications to my phone via a Home Assistant automation. If I'm not at home, I pay $65/year for Nabu Casa, which gives me secure remote access to my Home Assistant install and also helps fund Home Assistant development.
Are you running the cameras by themselves or do you also use the Amcrest NVR? I bought a PoE kit with the NVR but find it very clunky to use and have yet to figure out how to transfer video clips off of it (USB flashdrive only?). I've been interested in Frigate and the like but have yet to really dig into it. I'm also running a server with Plex and HA with lots of storage which would work for storage provided I buy a PoE switch.
Yes, you can obviously build your own version of event detection and remote storage, and then appify it in a way which is secure and ergonomically useful, nobody is claiming otherwise. This requires a considerable amount of expertise to do safely, and additional complexity generally expands your threat surface. For you, that may be fine. I'm pretty tech literate and have a bunch of other self hosted services, but I just don't think the additional complexity is worth maintaining for push notifications. Again, that might be different for you.