Crossposting here because apparently this transphobic mod is running their community, where they enable other transphobes, on this instance, which I don't think they should be allowed to
Crossposting here because apparently this transphobic mod is running their community, where they enable other transphobes, on this instance, which I don't think they should be allowed to
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/37235684
Obviously reporting transphobic comments to a transphobic mod isn't going to result in any action, so I'm wondering if the admins are going to do anything about it?
(if someone needs an image description, please ask)
Gendered sports is cringe, just sort into different "Leagues" based on different strength. Some cis boys can be born with a disadvantage, some cis girls can be born with a natural advantage, I don't see them complaining about the cis girls who have a natural advantage.
Also:
Gendered bathrooms are also dumb. What are people even doing in the bathroom lol, just use and gtfo.
I do agree with you in theory, but the problem with this is that there are enough tiers of male athletes to fill multiple leagues before any significant number of women would be included, and people tend to only be interested in the top level of competition. The effective result of eliminating gender segregation would be the total absence of women in competitive sports.
What was the comm?
OK that's the last straw for me. I am willing to give the benefit of a doubt to people, but this is the third strike for this person. So I've asked them to move their comm to another instance as they don't align with our instance values.
Well done. I appreciate the fuck out of this place.
Yet another very common db0 W
Yet another very common transphobia L
Another victory for the peoples court, hear hear
Well done
Fantastic to hear, thank you!
Based db0 as always.
I don’t know enough about sports, or the skeletomuscular and endocrine differences between someone AMAB and someone AFAB, to comment on the topic.
I’d much prefer to defend our trans community, but there’s way too much misinformation for me to get the valid and credible information needed to do so. Can someone please share some links so people like me can be educated enough to speak out in support?
Read *Who's Afraid of Gender? *
The jest of it is that sometimes cis women have more testosterone than cis men. Even in top athletes.
And trans women on hrt have less than either.
I started transitioning over the summer, I've lost 15 lb of muscle mass.
Three decades of testosterone dominance made me tall and lanky. But no taller or more lanky than cis women I know. About the only major difference, as far as sports are concerned, would be my wider shoulders. And still needing to wear a cup I guess.
Perfect. I’ll definitely check that out. Thank you!
If anyone else is as strapped as I am, I just confirmed they have the E-book for loan on my local library website. Borrowing from the library may help authors less than purchase, but it’s still better than piracy.
Transphobes can get wrecked.
We'd better do our best to ruin these people because they don't agree with us. No tolerance for the intolerant! Everyone who doesn't immediately sign up for our beliefs, must be intolerant, by definition. Burn em all!!!!
ruin these people
Get some perspective, mate
You're right; I didn't really mean it in the context of "ruin their lives" but my cat started barfing on the floor mid-typing and I had to chase the little plastic demon away and got distracted and then I slipped on a banana peel and it slid me a minimum of three metres in a single direction and then I hit a bookcase and a dusty tome landed in front of me (in front have me?) and opened on a very auspicious page. Very auspicious indeed, for it cast a magical spell that turned me into a newt. It got better, though. Anyway, I digress.
Fuck off, it's an internet forum.
Also?
Yes.
Being intolerant makes you intolerant. Good spot.
There's a difference between tolerating someone's beliefs and immediately adopting them as your own. Just because someone doesn't share your beliefs, does not mean they are being intolerant.
Bad take
Why don't we just make a trans league so we can just stop talking about this with anyone ever again?
Also, does a person who has gone through male puberty before transition not have at least some advantage in certain areas due to bone structure alone? I understand that trans girls who pre-empt puberty are likely physically equivalent to their cisgendered peers, but I have my reservations about integrating people who transition later in life. If I'm wrong, I would love to see any studies anyone may want to share.
There aren't enough trans people to have our own league. Also separate but equal is not an ethical solution.
No, they are not at an advantage https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/rcna148437
You're right, that is an unrealistic solution. I've never been interested in sports, so I admit I didn't really put much thought into that. I guess, in my mind, trans people in sports is one of the less dire issues we face today. But, I should acknowledge that there are trans people whose life revolves around sports, and I appreciate you framing it the way it is: separate but 'equal.' That really adds a stark perspective to it that I admittedly had not considered.
Thank you so much for linking research, I'll read that right now.
EDIT: I didn't read the article, I clicked their link to the study and read the abstract and data. So, if I'm reading the data correctly, the only factor measured where trans athletes have an advantage is the slightly higher grip strength of trans women? Just making sure I'm interpreting that correctly. Thank you so much for sending that my way.
Nope. Male puberty doesn't cause changes that aren't mitigated by transition.
Any changes to bone structure that don't change are the ones that are present in any athlete in a given sport.
I'm not digging through studies for you, because I haven't gotten a single paycheck from anyone ever for doing so online. That information is out there, and it's your responsibility to do your due diligence on the matter.
If you don't know that you're wrong or right already, by having looked for the information needed to make a credible opinion, maybe hang back a bit, or at least ask better questions.
Maybe some people learn things by asking questions in the right spaces to be corrected intellectually. I'm completely fine with being wrong, that's why I asked a controversial question here. I don't need you to provide studies to rethink my opinion, I just figured people in this thread might have some available. Apparently the only thing you have on hand at the moment is snark.
Also you'll only help educate people if you get paid? What??? This would have been such a good moment to point me toward literally any resources that could help in my research. You didn't even have to link a study, you could just link a database. You and I both know there are studies funded by special interest groups that are biased against trans people. I never claimed to have a credible opinion, which is why I invited discourse.
Anyway, thanks for your statement. I guess I'll have to look into this more myself. Just keep in mind that most people, when the burden of research is placed upon them by someone who clearly has knowledge of the subject, will simply say "fuck that" and keep being ignorant.
fun fact: your body is an incredibly dynamic system and hormones are the major drivers for those changes. swap the hormones out and the body adjusts to its new normal. when you do this is fairly immaterial.
also 'later in life' you mean when adults are playing sports together? oh no.... or do you mean professional sports where transgenders currently would be banned regardless because of bigotry? what exactly are we talking about here?
maybe you should leave these opinions to train medical professionals who work with these issues on the regular instead of your gut.
Later in life like, after puberty... I feel like I was pretty clear.
I'm not using my gut, I'm using my eyes and seeing trans athletes that are bigger and wider than cisgender peers, and then asking if that affects anything in certain sports. Nowhere did I state trans women shouldn't be playing any sport. I posed that as a question, then followed up with my thoughts on the issue and asked for dialogue contradicting my opinion - because I want to be wrong about this! I'm just asking because I thought this would be a good place to ask. Judging by both responses to my comment, it's apparently more important for me to know I'm wrong than to help me know what's right.
Are you a trained medical professional?
I'm not a fan of the tone they are using to discuss this. There is a difference from transitioning before puberty vs after. There are specific biological differences that a mtf woman will have that hormones won't change. There is an issue that needs to be resolved with sports. I don't know what the solution is, but shutting down conversation doesn't seem like it. Shutting down transphobia, yes absolutely. I hope I'm not coming off poorly.
I have to admit that this was the discussion that made me realize we can easily believe a problem exists just because it theoretically might exist. The discussion started without any data backing the claims. People said there was an advantage and that it was unfair, but they were just words that connected to internal belief systems that were either faulty or bigoted.
It's similar to the discussion of sportswear. The solution is offering athletes choice and autonomy, but it's easy to end up in discussions criticizing the clothes without consulting the people that are affected and the reality of their situation.
There are specific biological differences that a mtf woman will have that hormones won’t change.
This is transphobia since it is factually incorrect and stems from wilful ignorance, and I'm shutting it, and your tone policing, down. There, how's that?
I ment the tone of the original post complaining about the trans woman playing on the women's team. I appreciate that article and agree with it. But I don't really feel bad about doing it to people who are expressing anger because trans people exist.
I would be interested in any articles you have about the biological changes I was talking about. I would love to read anything you have. I'm going off of general classes I took in college. Like developmental, human, and cell biology. Nothing was specific on transitioning, just the general sexual dimorphism in humans.
What makes you think it's willful ignorance over garden-variety ignorance? Being incorrect and thinking you are correct is different from purposefully keeping yourself ignorant.
I have no horse in this race, and willfully being ignorant and spreading disinformation about trans topics willfully is indeed transphobic and warrants aggressive shutdowns, like the comment I'm replying to. But unless I'm missing something I don't see the evidence of bad intent here? It just seemed like a bit of a leap.
Im leaving his comment up in order to respond but I don't want to rehash that discussion here.
The reason this decision was taken was not just this one discussion. It was because that person has too many red flags for my liking on the stuff they would defend, always juuuuust skirting the line of what is acceptable discourse here.
That makes perfect sense, past behavior definitely changes things. I appreciate the explanation.