Bernie Would Have Won
Bernie Would Have Won
The Democratic smothering of the Bernie coalition reaped its reward today, writes Krystal Ball.
He's right. In a declining capitalist state like the current US, workers want change. In the absence of a genuine working class party that correctly blames capitalism and the capitalist class for a revolution, you get a "radical" capitalist-funded party that at least points the blame at someone — marginalized people.
The dems only offer to preserve the status quo, and no one fucking wants the status quo.
Get organized. Liberal democracies in the imperial core historically always slide to fascism.
It's worth noting that "fascism" specifically is a eurocentric — or even more specifically a 20th century-centric — ideology. You could argue the US has always been "fascist", just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it — the countries it constantly wages wars on. Still a good way to describe the direction declining capitalist states are headed to, I guess.
You could argue the US has always been “fascist”, just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it
Hitler was inspired on how to treat the Jews, Romani, disabled, and queers, based on how we treated Native Americans and Black Americans. He saw the country doing so well in the world stage excluding millions from the same status and privilege as the normalized default, and thought it would work for Germany and Europe, by force.
America was founded by rich white oligarchs, it was never going to support anything good without a lot of people letting go unless they died.
EDIT: Sorry if you get double pinged, server had a hiccup as I was posting.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.
Even here in Europe where there are genuine left wing parties, where there's proportional representation, where we have mistly functional education, labour class people are voting for folks who blame poor people and immigrants for everything that goes wrong. I think part of the blame is with tabloid style media and social media magnifying formerly fringe opinion. Just saying that having a real alternative for the populist right, might not be enough.
Any example at hand of these liberal democracies that hystorically always slide to fascism? What does imperial core mean?
Primarily referring to Germany and Italy's descent into fascism, and we're currently seeing this happen in France, and now in the US. These countries only see a shift to the left with an external force, like Scandinavian states giving concessions to the working class when the nearby USSR posed the threat of a good example — and by extension, the threat of a working class revolution; of course, these concessions are gradually being taken away now.
Imperial core countries refers to colonizer countries that now control financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, and depend on the continued exploitation of former colonies.
I specify liberal democracies in imperial core countries because we have seen limited successes for the left outside it. Like Allende coming to power in Chile (before being overthrown in a US-backed coup 2 years later), or now Lula and Claudia coming to power in Brazil and Mexico.
It's not that liberal democracies always slide, specifically, it's that Capitalist states always slide, and this is heightened by being in the Global North. Global North countries brutally explioit Global South countries via Imperialism, by relying on vastly under-paid labor and selling it in the Global North for higher prices.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.
I also recommend Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, and the famous Yellow Parenti Speech (a small excerpt here.
Reread your post and then really consider if that rhetoric would get >50% of the vote. It’s just more academic jibberish that falls flat outside coastal cities.
That's not the message to voters, that's the message to thinking people who are evaluating the problem. The message to voters is much more simple. Point the finger where the blame lies, and tell the people what you'll do for them. Of course no serious funding will come your way if you try that though, since the corpos running the country aren't going to donate to a candidate who seeks to unseat them. There you see is the root of the problem. It's not a government of the people, by the people, unless you believe that silly lie that corporations are people.
The most relevant paragraph imo
Bernie’s coalition was filled with the exact type of voters who are now flocking to Donald Trump: Working class voters of all races, young people, and, critically, the much-derided bros. The top contributors to Bernie’s campaign often held jobs at places like Amazon and Walmart. The unions loved him. And— never forget — he earned the coveted Joe Rogan endorsement that Trump also received the day before the election this year. It turns out, the Bernie-to-Trump pipeline is real! While that has always been used as an epithet to smear Bernie and his movement, with the implication that social democracy is just a cover for or gateway drug to right wing authoritarianism, the truth is that this pipeline speaks to the power and appeal of Bernie’s vision as an effective antidote to Trumpism. When these voters had a choice between Trump and Bernie, they chose Bernie. For many of them now that the choice is between Trump and the dried out husk of neoliberalism, they’re going Trump.
Yes but then the DNC would not be able to please their donor class. Which is far more important than winning.
Most likely the DNC would have sabotaged him like Labour sabotaged Jeremy Corbin
Yeah that's the subtext of the headline. Or should be if it isn't the author's intent. This shouldn't be understood as an endorsement of social liberalism, but as a denunciation of the system as a way of obtaining good outcomes.
He should found a new party based on his moral and ethical values. First, take over Vermont government, after that let's see. He's the only politician I know whou could pull this one in the American scene. He's already independent and representing much more than Vermont.
I'm down, but he's just so old. With his only heir apparent being AOC. People don't like her nearly as much despite basically identical policy proposals. I wonder why?
I've said this before but at this point I think our only hope is the destruction of the Republican party so Democrats are the new conservatives. This way a progressive party could arise.
Or get rid of first past the post voting and the electoral college. But that seems harder somehow.
Or, honestly, this is the end and there is no hope left.
This is why he should do it now. It's his ideas the ones founding the party, not him. This is still one right moment, the Democrats are in crisis and the people opposed to Trump feel strayed. Meanwhile, the Republican party is raving on their victory, but we all know Trump will fuck it up as soon as he is in charge the next year, leaving people disenchanted.
despite basically identical policy proposals
You don't really have this problem when you vote for political parties instead of presidents.
People don’t like her nearly as much despite basically identical policy proposals. I wonder why?
AOC voted to protect the rail corporations from the union strike.
We already have like 5 more. Why wouldn't he join greens or communists or peace and freedom or another?
If one of those aligns with his political views, maybe. That doesn't mean he will be allowed to steer that particular political party; and I think that's why.
Bernie should be the benevolent dictator of the Democratic party.
Bernie couldn't win when it was just Democrats deciding amongst themselves.
The Democrats ran Bernie before, during a time that was much more favorable for a progressive candidate. Only then, his name was George McGovern and he got beat like a rented mule.
Progressives need to learn how few people in this country are willing to consider the notion of the possibility of thinking about letting their daughters date a progressive, much less elect one President. It's not enough to be right, if you're fucking stupid about the citizens of this country.
Something I've realized about the post mortem takes is that peoples opinions on what went wrong is often just the laundry list of things they wanted and didn't get.
So the candidate wasn't perfect enough for them and if candidate just did all that well enough for me then it would have been a victory. Easy peasy. Too bad they aren't the entire electorate.
Seems only natural in an era of heightened partisanship. It's not even left-right but divisions among factions within. Why is everyone ignoring the strong anti-communist sentiment among Latino populations. If Harris lost that by surprisingly large margins campaigning more center than anything then a proper left candidate would have even worse numbers.
good bit
If this is how he felt the last year, he's just as culpable as all of the other fucks who stayed home and didn't vote. Fuck him and his Monday morning quarterbacking.
Bernie is a bastard, but I think it's backwards thinking to blame voters rather than candidates. In a nominal democracy, it's the job of the candidates to appeal to people to get votes. If there is any merit to this idea, we must conclude that the failure was the Harris campaign for not generating the confidence needed to vote for her -- which is a very expected outcome when you're running as reactionary a campaign as she did, calling the wall a "good idea" and so on.
Yep. From a systems analyst perspective, if there's a problem with a couple people, it's because they're idiots. If a lot of people are having a problem, it's a systems issue. In this case, the DNC and their shit messaging.
It's like they hired an intern to do their marketing. They had a few funny clap backs on socials but they didn't actually pivot to appeal to their target demographics. Fucking marketing 101.
Agree
Last I saw something like 55% of the populace looks like it voted for trump. In these crazy pants times I do not see bernie winning.
55% of the vote, 20% of the population. Democrats stayed home.
55% of the electorate who care which is sorta more sad sounding.
What no political theory does to a mfer
Trump offers a fake anti-establishment for people who are rightfully mad at the state. Only a working class party can direct that towards actual improvement.
Problem is obviously that a working class party wouldn't be funded and backed by billionaire capitalists the way the duopoly is; that's the point of liberal "democracies" — keeping capitalist parties in power.
This is why citizens united is basically the worst thing to come out of the millenia. So far. In the US at least.
I’m not impressed by this analysis.
- It doesn’t account for those who stayed home.
- It doesn’t account those who would have voted for Sanders instead of Trump if that option were actually available to them.
- Who did they think would be excited to volunteer to canvass for Democratic genocidaires? The DNC knowingly forfeited their ground game.
I really cannot see how anyone who would vote for trump would vote for sanders. its like apples and poison ivy. I don't get those who don't vote in a democracy either. I hate living in this eroding time period but way the hell glad to be living when democracy is considered the standard form of government. On tope of it we get to vote for the office, and get to vote for people to run for the office, and can sign signatures to get people on the ballot to run for office. I feel like people really don't have a good sense of human history.
You are not intelligent or informed. 20% voted him in. 55% of the people who voted comes out to about 40% of the eligible voters nationally.
Bernie can't even garner the support of his own party, let alone the whole country. What are you guys on??
Not to mention the constant complaint about old people in politics while demanding more of this dinosaur?
America just voted for an old dude who can't string two sentences together, and can barely walk unaided. Do you really think the "too old" argument holds water?
Bernie has a lot more energy than Trump and Biden combined, tbh.
He doesnt get support because he actually supports the working class. The fundamental thing us left folks have to accept is the democratic party simply isnt a left wing party. The left doesnt exist anymore in the US.
The parties are right wing conservatives called Democrats vs fascist psychopaths that call themselves Conservatives.
The reality simply is that the left is the right, and the right isnt even on the chart anymore. The actual left doesnt even have representation at this point.
Voters have to start getting a lot louder about this, in more obnoxious ways. Protesting has to happen, at minimum.
You think the party elects presidents? It doesn't. People do, not politicians or parties. Your myopic view is what's wrong with American elections, particularly Democrats: the idea that a party can win by virtue of appeal to the machine.
Bernie would have won in 2016 if HRC, Wasserman-Schultz, Donna Brasil, and the DNC hadn't subverted his nomination. Again in 2020 if the DNC, Kamala, and the other candidates hadn't dropped out in favor of Biden against Sanders.
The idea that any candidate is owed the presidency is fucked. So is your misunderstanding of the problem.
No point in arguing with the Bernie Bros. It's analogous to the MAGA cult at this point, the blind devotion. The only difference was Trump was able to win his primaries.