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Huh. I would have bet Lemmygrad would be up there somewehre.
Places like Lemmygrad and Hexbear are actually pretty benign. They're just on the verge of being acceptable to people so they make a lot of noise and cause a lot of drama but in terms of the actual bad actors... well, as you can see, they don't even rate.
Agreed. While I tend to disagree with most of the viewpoints coming from lemmygrad, at least the content is posted with benign intent. The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
I like this figure of speech a lot, stealing it 😁
Meh, I don't really find the open mass murder fetish benign at all. I don't care what color your fash is, it's still abhorrent.
I guess it's slightly better that they're mostly honest deniers instead of "they had it coming" types.
I think. I personally find it refreshing in small doses to deal with people that actually know what the fuck they're talking about in terms of political theory, some of the shit .world users will say is...
Upsetting, intellectually.
Of course, so is talking to a genuine Stalinist.
My experience with hexbear has been pretty fucking far from them knowing political theory, outside of one very specific niche they can kind of articulate as long as you don't ask them to reduce any of it to fundamentals or first principles.
As far as I can tell, their one trick is quoting books they haven't actually read, assuming nobody else has read them either. I've literally had this same interaction three or four times at this point, over books which don't say the things they think they say. Like multiple people arguing that some Chomsky work supports their orthodox ML theory.
You can literally get them to argue against the works they are trying cite by quoting them. It's amusing for a bit, but then it's just sad.
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are different instances, but tbh at this point I'm just happy with people that can at least vaguely define liberalism and socialism, and I don't have to see the great minds upvote "communism is right wing, AKSHUALLY, because right wing means authoritarian."
Edit: ah wait, your comment was under one about both, I conflated it with the other chain about Lemmygrad specifically.
I think this highlights what people think when they hear "defederating" vs its actual purpose. It's controversial when it's between serious instances that people actually use but with wildly incompatible opinions, but there's very few objections when it's blocking CSAM!
Okay, yeah this was my thought as I wrote this, I won't deny it. But to be fair, LemmyGrad does more than just to be controversial. They provoke and brigade and justify terrible Crimes against Humanity. And I might bet that some of the Stuff they say could even be illegal here in Germany.
I imagine most of the big servers have them blocked but it's probably the individual servers that make up the majority of the numbers. If you're self-hosting then you can just ignore instances you don't like and be relatively confident they won't hassle you. The other kind though, probably want to preempt them!
It is trivially easy to find examples of them wanting to nuke the US or kill all liberals or defending Soviet and Chinese pogroms, etc. I don't understand how that's really any different from saying "kill all Jews" or advocating for slavery tbh. As far as I can tell, the line exists because edgy redfash are mostly marginalized so nobody takes them seriously?
I'd imaging its fur and anime, not CSAM.
Fur, anime, and CSAM groups have a not so insignificant overlap of members sometimes, sadly.
Judging from some of the other comments in this thread I'm not so sure
I think lemmygrad isn’t that bad considering pedo.school is halfway through the list.
True, but LemmyGrad can be wild too. I met one who claimed being Homosexual is imperialistic. https://lemmy.world/post/4494303
Ah yes the urge to kiss boys and conquer territory
Conquer that ass booiiiii
Isn't that a .world user? Lemmygrad doesn't allow homophobes as a rule. Probably why they couldn't register on that instance.
Being gay and imperialist is a hilarious thought though lol
When you are a queen but want to be THE Queen.
Lemmygrad and Hexbear most definitely do not tolerate homophobia, though, so I don't think that user would've lasted long there if they were a lemmygrad user.
I mean that's a very wacky and stupid opinion but go on any one of those servers in that list and you'll probably see much, much worse things being claimed about gay people and not just by one person.
I bet a large part of the Fediverse are Communist/Socialist too, or have similar ideas. Lemmy's devs are, after all.
I mean, the whole thing is based on the idea of being free to use for everyone.
I see your Point. I see myself also as rather left. But the People over at Lemmygrad are not really left imo. They are authoritarian, for sure. But left? I don't know. I don't want to claim to be the sole "Incarnation of leftism" it's just that many of my views and beliefs are the opposite of theirs.
The spectrum is more than left and right, I know political compass memes on Reddit got taken over by nazis but there is legitimately a whole compass. Stalin is somewhat center left, nudist hippie communes are lower left corner
There is, for better or worse, authoritarianism on the left. "You will be fed and given a place to stay and personal safety... or else!" Even in its more benign forms (ex Bolshevism) it's kinda bad imo. When it gets extreme it gets... well... being an English speaker i'm sure you've heard all about it.
Not really, but I'm actually not a native English speaker tho 😅
Bolshevism is pretty fucking far from benign considering it is the origin of authoritarian leftistism.
Being vehemently against racism and fascism is left. It's the logical extreme opposite of "a certain group of people are superior to everyone else": "everyone is equal and their basic necessities should be provided for free"
You just seem to disagree with the folks over on grad and Lemmy devs on how that can be achieved, and maybe to what extent it should be. They believe an authority is necessary to enforce those rules, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for profit from oil, materials etc. like what's happening now.
Personally, I see being pro-China like they are on grad as much less worrying than being pro-US, the latter of which I have a feeling .world mods wouldn't block because of their inherent western bias. Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries for their resources, or overthrown democratically elected foreign governments to replace them with military dictatorships.
Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries
The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.
I'm not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that's my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes "their" Side has done. And that's not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done
That's a heavy oversimplification of everything on there... I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.
If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it's only natural that you'd end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.
The People of Tibet might disagree there
Here's an example of that. The fact that China's education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they're just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.
You don't get it. I don't compare. It is not that is worse than that. China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don't need to compare this to the US. I don't care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil. Pull yourself away from comparing. You don't have to weigh Evil against each other.
EDIT:
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done.
You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.
you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think
Shouldn't we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you're being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this
China invaded and occupied Tibet
is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China's help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to "China invaded and occupied Tibet" is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.
Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here's a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It's similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.
Again you feel the need to bring up the US. This is all you got, isn’t it? “Hey, Hey, don’t call out my Camp, look at the US. They are bad!”.
You honestly believe everyone lies? Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Campaign for Tibet, Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, the UN. All lie? But China tells the truth. You are so far gone it’s unbelievable. You question well documented facts, but you won’t believe that a regime that is notorious for lying won’t lie? You are waaaay too far gone that I, a random Person from the Internet, could ever convince you. I’m just going to block you, you are not worth arguing with any further. You have nothing of value to say I couldn't read in a Chinese propaganda pamphlet.
Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region.
Yes Tibet was a theocratic slave state. But China still invaded and annexed them.
Was the US invasion of Iraq justified because Saddam was a dictator? If we annexed Iraq and didn't make them speak English it would be fine?
Forget it. He is too far gone. We are just Strangers on the Internet, and he lives inside a paranoid nightmare. I tried my best but got nowhere.
I can see his side because Tibet was a Theocratic slave state. But he pretends China didn't invade.
He's clearly a tankie. I wonder if lemmy.zip is just as bad as lemmygrad or lemmy.ml.
I know why I went to kbin though. I just have no desire to directly support those developers.he lives inside a paranoid nightmare
Lmao I wouldn't go that far. But we can't all see eye-to-eye ig unfortunately.
China invaded and annexed them.
Again, the popular Tibetan revolutionary party fought the feudal rule and welcomed Chinese intervention; their views were in line with the rest of China, and the autonomous nature of the region while being part of China reflects that.
the US invasion of Iraq
Not even comparable. There were no popular pro-US movements fighting Saddam's rule, and Iraq was destabilized in the first place because of US sanctions, not Saddam's decisions unlike the feudalism in Tibet. This was purely a strategic invasion to set up military bases and secure oil and resources by making up false claims of WMDs.
popular Tibetan revolutionary party
If they were popular, they wouldn't have needed China to invade. China was supporting them just like the US supported revolutionaries that overthrew their governments.
There were no popular pro-US movements fighting Saddam’s rule
The Kurds.
This was purely a strategic invasion to set up military bases and secure oil and resources by making up false claims of WMDs.
Their are no us military bases in Iraq and all the oil money goes to Iraq.
So are you saying that China didn't abduct a child in an attempt to exterminate Tibetan culture? Surely there is no way to defend such things and this should be a very easy thing to condemn?
Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
You're a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren't communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren't in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time..genocide
Jesus christ, you don't seem to realize how much of a fucked up accusation that is to throw around. Even the US State Department, who would love to claim any and all accusations against their geopolitical rivals, says there's no mass killings in China, probably because the US couldn't cause one like they did in 1965 in Indonesia.
Even if it's not intentional, these kinds of thoughtless claims downplay actual mass killings like the one Israel is perpetrating against native Palestinians right now.
far-rights co opting leftist language to grab power
Hence why it's important to scrutinize news, sources and claims, and not throw around baseless ones.
I do think we need a democratically elected authority though, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for their own selfish profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now with Israel. And rising inequality as wealth gathers at the top.
Perhaps a governing system like Cuba's, which is Socialist and has one of the most open democracies in the world. It has an unusually high percentage of women in the government compared to the rest of the world thanks to that; 53.22% now (U.S has 29.0%), and better LGBT rights than the US nowadays. Also free healthcare, and enough free high level education to provide Italy with doctors during the pandemic, despite the ongoing 60 year US embargo.
They're being brainwashed and sterilized, if you don't think that's genocide you're a dumbass and a piece of shit who wants them to die
Also $20 says this person isn't pro palestine or anti zionist, just pro Hamas and pro raping and murdering jews
I would say pro Putin people can't be called leftists they are nazis in red.
I don't think they're pro-Putin? Seem to be as much against Russian imperialism and capitalism as they are against US's.
Edit: Lmao one of the first comments I saw on there:
Putin will be a narcissistic fence sitter who abuses power for his own ends
So yeah, not very "pro-Putin"
and I saw some very pro Putin shit in places like chapotraphouse,even people for the genocide of ukraine
I do wonder how much of that is Russian psyop. I feel like the whole chapotraphouse thing was started or at least very influenced by bad actors and propaganda bots. That place was a shitshow, for sure.
Probably none of it, but knowing how Russia is that wouldn't surprise me. That's just how tankies are, no need for russian intervention. They're just as bad as Nazis for "that genocide didn't happen, but if it did they deserved it" type shit
"I found literally one comment that doesn't support Putin so clearly the tankie instance doesn't support him!"
I literally have a hexbear account. People scream that the tankies love putin and that couldn't be further from the truth. USSR? Yes but they shit on modern day Russia a lot
I would tell you to go to hell for being on hexbear, but apparently you haven't been on there enough to see how pro-russia and pro-Putin tankies tend to be
And apparently you haven't been on there long enough to see how wrong you are. Link me this pro putin propaganda, I'll wait
r/genzedong and I think a couple other tankie subreddits literally got taken down for spreading pro-russia disinformation https://time.com/6160519/reddit-international-hate-speech-ban/ . I've seen a bunch of shit from them and from hexbear and grad about how Putin is based for denazifying Ukraine and shit, but no number of actual examples of that I could link would change your mind bc putin's boot just tastes too nice to you, so why would I even bother subjecting myself to cunts like you calling for Ukrainian and Jewish genocide?
Probably they don't disturb the large number of Mastodon instances.
Lemmy is not able to disturb Mastodon as much as other microblogging instances.
Nobody on a Lemmy instance is able to follow accounts (like on Mastodon or /kbin). Thus, Lemmy will not fetch anything from Mastodon unless written specifically to a threadiverse community (and the community being CCed). Because of this, Lemmy instance are less harmful, than (potentially) any microblogging server (be it Mastodon, Pleroma, Soapbox, *key, etc.)
