Reddit mods discuss forming a union and suing for back pay

Yeah, this seems very unlikely to go anywhere other than in gaining media attention (which is a fair aim to have at this point).

I don't think the point to to actually get paid. I think the idea is, as you said, media attention, as well as investor attention. Who's going to want to invest in a company that's trying to unionize?
- I thought unionize meant un-ion-izing things, like ions from molecules and metals.
maybe they should start a lemmy community to talk about it... like [email protected]

Seems like a rather large shitpost, but I encourage them to cause chaos by any means necessary (feasibility be damned).

They should sue reddit for violating GDPR too (if anyone that deleted posts/comments on their profile and reddit restored them is European)

I'm not seeing any serious suggestions of that there. Looks more like hypothetical talk.

I actually had a similar thought to that yesterday. Could moderators be classified as employees for the work they do?

However, the Supreme Court has made it clear that the FLSA was not intended "to stamp all persons as employees who without any express or implied compensation agreement might work for their own advantage on the premises of another."

I think you would have a massive uphill struggle to argue Reddit's moderators are employees in court. Without that no back pay and no union.

no need to classify as employees to form organised resistance. Look at the French Resistance in WW2, the American War of Independence!!!!
- Correct no need to form a union for resistance.
  
  Unions just have special protected legal protection that could be utilized in a legal battle or to threaten legal battles in order to get concessions.
  
  Right now all there is is the threat of lawsuits, that Reddit will probably win, in order to threaten more lawsuits. The negotiation power to get concessions there is limited at best.

This probably won't get very far but no harm trying and if it actually does work there is a ton to be gained

Being that the message that Spez was trying to give off at times was that developers weren't paying their fair share, I think this gives the a great example of how Reddit essentially doesn't pay their fair share. They aren't creating the content, and they aren't paying the mods to "manage" the content.
- Its crazy how this was just allowed to continue for almost 20 years with nothing happening reddit trying to ipo and indirectly creating lemmy is really the best outcome possible

Lol. Good luck finding a lawyer to that that case. I'm with the mods but I assume this a joke that got out of hand.

I assume they're realistic enough to know that this really won't go anywhere and that the whole point of the discussion is simply to make some noise.
- There's also something to be said about using the system to fight the system. We're taught civil rights were won through peaceful protest and getting attention, but we don't live in that fairy tale world
  
  Those people who had sit ins didn't do it for attention, they did it because once they were in the system for breaking a law, they could challenge the law. They didn't do it once or twice, they tied up the court systems
  
  The black Panthers also played a significant role, but the only analog here is anonymous, and the panthers were more of a deterrent to using police to do punitive raids
  
  The US government didn't want to end segregation and it wasn't like the public at large liked the idea, they used the third path - you use just position yourself so either they're forced to stop brushing you off and in doing so give you legitimacy through escalation or negotiation, or they just give in and you achieve your goal
It has legal precident. There was a class action lawsuit, with payout, when AOL changed the chatrooms for moneys and the chatrooms mods were able to organize and argue for all their past unpaid work. Unpaid workers or volunteers only work as free labor when the business isn't selling something. When money is involved there are different rules with dept of labor and everything. I don't know the specific details, but yeah a class action lawsuit of this type has happened before with a payout. I'm sure they can find plenty of lawyers that want a class action payout.

Out of principle I support this, but I very much doubt it will ever succeed.

I don't think they actually think they'll get backpaid, it's more the principle of the thing. You're saying Reddit isn't earning the money it should, how about all the free work mods have done over the years to make Reddit into anything worth monetising?
- They all ran Reddit into the ground and made it a husk of its former self. Funny joke BANNED, not a democrat BANNED. Oh you don’t love power-tripping, that’s definitely a BANNING. Fuck em all.

It would be really cool but these were the guys that backboned after being threatened to checks notes not being able to work for free.

I would rather have mods in place that were a part of the blackout than have new mods that instated directly by reddit.

It was either they ended the blackout and maliciously complied, or they would be removed and have replacements put in that would do whatever they were told.

Well that's kinda ridiculous

Ridiculous enough to warrant engagement though, isn't it?

Won't work. It's a volunteer, unpaid position. They have no legs to stand on in this case. The only real course of action they have is just not giving Reddit their service at all. Stop going there, stop giving them clicks and traffic.

I replied to this type of comment in another thread. Reddit is governed by California law. There may be something here, since reddit was benefiting off of free labor. Volunteering might not actually matter, since moderators were putting in actual hours for the benefit of reddit, while not receiving anything back. Without mods, reddit wouldn’t have the power to moderate all the subs, thus, reddit relied on mods to do unpaid company work which would have cost reddit millions per year if they were to pay moderators. I think there’s a thin case here.
- The real power would be in the union anyway. If they could gather the majority of mods and they actually went through with a strike, it would be a huge test for Reddit. They would have to bring in a ton of scabs or cave to the mods. Scabs may work in the king run, but it would also destroy every community they did it to.
  
  So the real question is whether these mods will actually act as a union or will it's members buckle in fear of being replaced.
the moment reddit starting threatening to fire them and take over THEIR communities, ut became a job.
- Eh I see what you mean but technically reddit has always been up front about it being volunteer, and they did give them the choice to step down instead of reopening. So I can't see it being held up in court
  
  But I'm NAL

Good luck to them. I dislike Reddit as much as the next guy, but this whole thing doesn't stand a chance. You do volunteer work nobody even asked you to do and then demand money? How does that make any sense at all?

They are probably not gonna get backpay, but what this could achieve is to force reddit's hand in legally recognizing mod's work from that point on and giving the mods more standing than they have now.
At the very worst, it sends a message and helps to continue bringing to light reddit's shitty practices.
About as much sense as building a company off free volunteer labor and then acting like you own those volunteers and the money they helped you earn

It doesn't take a ton of effort to make a website and an app, Lemmy is already hockey-sticking off entirely volunteer everything.

If trump can run and win on sowing chaos, why not use that tactic and see how far it can go. I say go for it.

Tech bros do love to "move fast and break things". Let's see how much they really like it.

Excellent. Organising at grassroots will allow us to SMASH the rotten edifice of reddit!!

oh this is spicy

mods just want that nil money

It would be interesting to see them go forward with this. I know that laws vary for jurisdictions, but likely most concentration of the mods are in the USA. I am not familiar with laws on this, but with a cursory google search, it would appear that you can't volunteer to work for a private sector for profit business in where your work provides value to the company; that it would need t be a non-profit charity. Am I misunderstanding this?

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp#:~:text=Under the FLSA%2C employees may,services to public sector employers.

Fuckin lol

I don't think these people understand how the law works lol

Also a union for what? Posting on internet forums? Sssuuuurree...

I'm not sure you understand how the law works. Read "Glatt v. Fox Searchlight Pictures Inc." (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-2nd-circuit/1706417.html), where unpaid interns who worked on the film "Black Swan" sued the production company. The interns argued that they were actually employees and thus entitled to minimum wage and overtime under the Fair Labour Standards Act (FLSA) and New York labour law. The court agreed with the interns, finding that they were essentially regular employees.

To contrast with an unsuccessful case, I present "Wang v. The Hearst Corporation" (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-2nd-circuit/1882161.html), where unpaid interns at various magazines published by Hearst sued for wages. The court used a "primary beneficiary test" to determine whether the interns or the company were the primary beneficiaries of the arrangement. The court found that the interns were the primary beneficiaries, so they were not entitled to wages.

I think it would be hard for Reddit to argue that subreddit moderators are the primary beneficiaries of their labour, meaning if the mods unionise and bring a case, they might actually be successful.
- There is a vast, vast difference between interns that are officially working in the company and volunteers that are just using the platform. I think it's impossible to argue that mods are employees and it's stated time and time in Reddit's terms that they can ban people and remove content as they please since it's their platform. This isn't any different than other social media. They're legally allowed to demote mods and control subs.
When reddit threatened to fire them and take over THEIR communities, it became a job and they became liable and employer

I couldn't even continue reading pasted the first comment. Ridiculous