What explains the disparity of outcome in people who join the military?
What explains the disparity of outcome in people who join the military?
American culture seems to be rife with men who went to the Marines and after being discharged of duty went on to either lead successful lives or who's life took a turn for the worse and ended up on the street.
Of c, the two groups are not equal in numbers and the third much larger group lies in between these two groups. Now, I still am interested in the disparity between the extremes. Why do some people who join the Marines go on to create an over represent the Marines amount the successful, while others end up on the street? They are all given a clean slate somewhat and are exposed to the exact same environment, what do the successful learn which the unsuccessful don't?
You're assuming that the dramatically segmented and stratified experience is the "exact same service", which is patently not true.
There's a world of difference between a black officer who managed a supply line, a white non-comp who maintained aircraft, and a queer rifeman who witnessed half his unit die to an IED. And that's ignoring rape, gang infiltration, religions discrimination, and plain ol "was your CO a jerk or awesome?"
I keep seeing posts like this, and I have to wonder if OP is a kid or if they just have no real life experience. Do homeless people stay homeless in your mind?
In the military there are two separate classes, officers and enlisted. Officers had at least a bachelor's degree and the military is a much different experience for them. They come in day as leaders, are paid significantly more, and have more opportunities to make lifelong connections with powerful people.
Enlisted are treated like blue collar workers, the grunts. Just in their day to day jobs enlisted people are going to have more wear and tear on their bodies. Take battle experience out of it, just as is, officers have a much better path forward.
Fraternization is illegal between officers and enlisted which basically makes it two segregated classes.
Enlisted folks also tend to come from lower income families, so while they are giving more opportunities than staying in their home town it can still be difficult for them to advance much higher.
In short, you have a large mixture of people from different ways of life with different education levels. Some take advantage of stuff like the GI Bill or other opportunities,. others don't. Also some give their bodies to the extent that they can't really function at the same levels on the outside.
I would assume it also has to do with your assignment and how much/if any combat you’ve experienced and injuries you sustained.
My Dad was drafted into Vietnam - infantry - and was wounded. He was only there ~ 6 months, and tried to go to university on the GI Bill, but for awhile couldn’t stand being in that type of environment immediately after returning home. PTSD/survivor’s guilt, etc, were too much.
Later on in life his injuries prevented him from being able to work. This, combined with rising medical debt, left us in a bad spot.
What you’re exposed to when you serve and when you served also come into play - PTSD is taken more seriously now, as are the effects of things like Agent Orange. I’m not sure if the VA is better or worse from, say, 20 years ago, but that could also be a factor.
Not sure if this helps to answer your question, but that’s my personal anecdote.
I suspect that mental health and social support at home play huge roles here.
aka: the same things that effects everybody's outcomes.
That's true.
I have a question I can pose to anyone, but I am posing to you, do you think Lemmy focuses way too much on the things which we can't control and disregards what we can? I.e., when I asked that question I wanted actionable steps on which I can base my life around, something to help me be better, instead every answer I have gotten seems to focus on things we can't control.
I was thinking the answer would revolve around Attitude, Discipline and Mindset, and tho the answers are as revealing as these, I am not getting anything I can act on. Is Lemmy fixating on the negative 🤔
There are things you can manage, but they tend to be about controlling your environment.
JD Vance is the perfect example of someone that benefited from the military. Fit in (and let's be honest being a straight white male still helps). Find a job that involves sitting behind a desk. Get some experience pulling a 9-5 for a few years, and then go to university for free. Don't get injured. Don't get PTSD.
All of this attitude with a capital A is too late. You can't Attitude yourself out of a missing leg, and you can't Attitude yourself out of PTSD. You can learn to cope better but coping well with PTSD is still worse than not having it.
Either have a plan to avoid danger or you need to be lucky.
Family and social supports when you get out. There is a lot of adjustment to a world where you have to make your own way and decisions. Having support lets you make some mistakes and recover. Even if that is just getting a wrong job, or not finding a place to live fast enough.
Sample bias. Any advertising, campaigning, fawning and celebrating are the exceptions. You are exposed to the "success stories" exponentially more through media thanks to government and corporate forces despite the successes being exponentially rarer than the failures: suicides, mental health disorders, divorces, denied medical care by VA, insufficiency of college fund programs, underemployment, etc. The coverage Success Stories get as the 1% or whatever, dwarfs the failures which are the 99%. This reversed representation explains why they may be perceived as equally likely, which is confusing.
The answer is sample bias; deliberately misleading. After all, who is going to sign up if they could see reality represented? Most would just work fast food--same crappy outcomes, fewer bullets.
This is bullshit because it’s not a 1% / 99% split.
The successes are more common than the failures in my experience. They’re absolutely not “exponentially rarer than the failures.” I work with many successful veterans, all of us are near or above six figure salaries from our civilian jobs, not counting any military benefits. I’m one of those. My wife is an active duty officer. I got out after I did the minimum time to get the benefits I was after, because I like smoking weed and having a beard. I had a plan to pay off my college debt and get experience in the field. I pulled it off, and even got to travel to Japan and live in Italy. I got even more education benefits for reenlisting for a couple years.
Yeah, I know of a few suicides. I know of a few suicides and drug overdoses from civilian life, too. Divorce rates are astronomical on the enlisted side, I’ll give you that.
What fast food job can get you a career and college afterwards? You won’t get decent healthcare, nor room and board, nor an opportunity to travel with a fast food job.
Not every job in the military is infantry. It’s got more risks than a typical civilian job, but it’s absolutely not the 1%/99% split you’re claiming. Most people make it out fine and it sets them up well for life afterwards. That doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed success, though, and some people treat it this way. It is what you make of it.
Here's a source corroborating my experience with veterans:
"New York's 9/11-Era Veterans: A Quantitative Study by Sex, Race, and E" by Lawrence Cappello
9/11 era veterans in the New York metropolitan area performed well above their non-veteran counterparts in most socio-economic categories. The data indicate that between 2007 and 2017 employment, income, and educational attainment rates were consistently higher, and poverty rates consistently lower, than those of the metro area’s general population. These trends held relatively firm during the financial crisis of 2008 and as the veteran population continued to grow into the 2010s. In short, there is considerable evidence within this report to affirm that serving in the armed forces continues to have a direct correlation with greater socio-economic success. This correlation is particularly stark among Latinos and non-Hispanic blacks, where the variances between their non-veteran counterparts are prevalent in income, employment, poverty rates, and educational attainment.
There's a lot of statistics that can be found in this Pew research article too. I believe this sums it up well. Sure doesn't sound like only 1% have a successful experience.
A large majority of veterans endorse the military as a career choice. Roughly eight-in-ten say they would advise a young person close to them to join the military. This includes large majorities of post-9/11 veterans, combat veterans and those who say they had emotionally traumatic experiences in the military.