The White House says the controversial weapons are having an impact on Russian formations.
The White House has confirmed that Ukraine is using US cluster bombs against Russian forces in the country.
National Security Spokesman John Kirby said initial feedback suggested they were being used "effectively" on Russian defensive positions and operations.
Cluster bombs scatter multiple bomblets and are banned by more than 100 states due to their threat to civilians.
The US agreed to supply them to boost Ukrainian ammunition supplies.
Ukraine has promised the bombs will only be used to dislodge concentrations of Russian enemy soldiers.
"They are using them appropriately," Mr Kirby said. "They're using them effectively and they are actually having an impact on Russia's defensive formations and Russia's defensive manoeuvring. I think I can leave it at that."
The US decided to send cluster bombs after Ukraine warned that it was running out of ammunition during its summer counter-offensive, which has been slower and more costly than many had hoped.
President Joe Biden called the decision "very difficult", while its allies the UK, Canada, New Zealand and Spain opposed their use.
The vast majority sent are artillery shells with a lower than 2.35% "dud rate", a reference to the percentage of bomblets which do not explode immediately and can remain a threat for years.
The weapons are effective when used against troops in trenches and fortified positions, as they render large areas too dangerous to move around in until cleared.
Russia has used similar cluster bombs in Ukraine since it launched its full-scale invasion last year, including in civilian areas.
Reacting to the US decision to send the bombs, Russian President Vladimir Putin said his country had similar weapons and they would be used "if they are used against us".
Oleksandr Syrskyi, the Ukrainian general in charge of operations in the country's east, told the BBC last week that his forces needed the weapons to "inflict maximum damage on enemy infantry".
"We'd like to get very fast results, but in reality it's practically impossible. The more infantry who die here, the more their relatives back in Russia will ask their government 'why?'"
He added however that cluster bombs would not "solve all our problems".
He also acknowledged that their use was controversial, but added: "If the Russians didn't use them, perhaps conscience would not allow us to do it too."
Ukraine MOD has a program in place that databases every cluster munition fire mission. Demining eastern Ukraine is going to be a years long effort. Any unexpended ordinance will go into that effort. Countries that gave up cluster munitions have had their rose tinted glasses on too long and assumed war would be limited to foreign battlefields and not their back yards.
Iād prefer they donāt get used, but my preference for Russia to get the fuck out of Ukraine is much greater. Theyāre mapping their usage and south and eastern Ukraine will need extensive UXO clearing with or without the use of cluster munitions.
American here. Cluster bombs, like any munition are weapon of war and are designed to kill. In a war, the goal is to end it as quickly as possible and if a cluster bomb can accomplish that goal faster more efficiently then I say use them.
Should you be dropping cluster bombs on cities full of civilians? Obviously not. But an open battlefield situation filled with trenches and tanks, they are effective tool.
In any case, it's not like Ukraine and Russia are not firing other high explosive weaponry, bombs and mines are littering the landscape and will for hundreds of years to come. The only difference at this point is the delivery method of these weapons. There will be no shortage of unexploded ordinance left on the landscape after the war is over.
Yeah, but the big difference is these are small bombs, and a ton of them, that are really difficult to detect and clear. These things can be a buried for decades, and unlike a mine field someone could have walked or driven over it a thousand times before the one time it finally goes off or gets unearthed and someone picks it up not knowing it's about to kill or maim them. And the place they're dropping them might not be an urban area now, but what about in 40 years? The ones the US dropped on Laos, for example, are still killing people. There are millions and millions of them still to this day.
Many of countries that have banned the use of their military forces using cluster munitions have their arsenals stocked with similar technology to deploy a large quantity of landmines over a large area via mortars or artillery. I find it extremely hypocritical. Eastern Ukraine is already now one of the most heavily mined areas of the world and will already take decades to demine.
Sadly, the humanitarian concern of Ukraine's use of cluster bombs is not the most important.
The real issue is why we're sending Ukraine cluster bombs in the first place.
We're not doing it as part of some strategy or for some kind of tactical advantage. We're doing it because we don't have anything else left to send them. We've run out of modern munitions and won't be getting much more anytime soon. That's why we're sending Ukraine cluster bombs.
And the reason this article exists is because Ukraine is almost certainly not using them effectively, but they want to convince us otherwise. Cluster bombs don't do shit to tanks or buildings. They were designed for targeting people hiding in the jungle. Why would anyone feel the need to write an article saying, "Hey, btw, these weapons you paid for are definitely working out really well. They're super good at destroying Russians, for sure!"? I suspect it's because they're doing jack shit.
Cluster munitions certainly can take out tanks, but not all cluster munitions are made equally. There are several types. Just a quick Google search brings up the CBU-100 Rockeye II which is an anti-tank cluster munition.
We're also sending them these because cluster munitions are no longer used by the US military. So it's decomission or send them to be used. It's cheaper to ship them then dispose of them.
And we haven't ran out of modern munitions. We're running low on AVAILABLE SURPLUS munitions to send them. But we are ramping up production to replace current stocks.
What's happens in Ukraine have been a topic for papers since the 1990s . It's a proxy war where two competing oligarch fractions are fighting for dominance.
As Afghanistans president said Ukraine should have learned from them. When elephants dance...
The propaganda is so total that people rather see cluster bombs than peace. Fuck that.
Russia has repeatedly broken peace treaties and ceasefires with Ukraine. Their word means jack shit.
Next you're going to suggest we just need to sit down for a reasonable conversation with Kim Jong Un...
And speaking of misinformation/propoganda, nice job trying obfuscate from the fact that Ukraine is fighting for their own sovereignty against an aggressor who's committed genocide against their citizens, (with a recent history doing so in Syria as well).
You're either purposefully peddling propoganda under the guise of a warning, or you've hypocritically fallen victim to it while warning against it. Either way, your statement is devoid of reality.
War is hell. That statement is both true and has lost all meaning, because no one really feels it.
We should be negotiating a peace by now. The suffering of these cluster bombs cause is immeasurable, as is the general suffering of this war.
Imagine
spoiler
beating a puppy to death with a golf club
. Imagine the whole thing vividly, and then imagine
spoiler
pushing the pulpy body aside
and doing it again, and just repeating this exercise ad nausium for hours and hours. This is the kind of feeling we should experience when we read stories about this conflict, if we had any concept of what a war is. And when we debate whether to use cluster bombs, that's like debating whether to use
spoiler
a nine iron or crush the puppy's skull slowly with a boot
. One is definitely, definitely DEFINITELY WORSE, and should NEVER BE DONE, but both are awful and should make us so physically ill to think about that we would do anything at all -- such as negotiate a ceasefire! -- to avoid doing it.
Friendly reminder Russia is committing atrocities in the occupied territories. So any kind of negotiated "peace" that involves Ukraine giving up territory means them consigning all their citizens living there to torture, random executions, wanton sexual violence, having their children taken away, and worse!
That's what you're calling for when you advocate a "negotiated settlement".
This reminds me of a time a few years ago when my husband and I were trying to sell a motorcycle. The short version is that we wanted $4k, and we get holding out, but the wait involved kept causing the motorcycle -- which suffers when idle -- to need further costly servicing before we finally sold it for $2k. Which was close to what we spent unnecessarily on servicing it while holding out for a better price.
The point is that you're making some dangerous unexamined assumptions here. Let's just remember that eventually, the fighting will end with a negotiation and a treaty. We don't know what such a treaty would yield now, and we don't know what it will yield if it happens later. We have no way of knowing that a treaty negotiated later is going to be better than one granted now.
More importantly, I don't think you -- or most of the people in this comment section -- are factoring in the human cost to this war by the day. It's probably not possible. It's like picturing 200 billion ducks. Your brain is not capable of comprehending it.
I'm grateful I'm not responsible for doing this math and figuring out when the ideal trade off occurs, but it terrifies me that people are applying the same faulty logic that cost me $2k dollars when the stakes aren't $2k, they are literally more human blood than our brains are capable of conceptualizing.
What an idealistic and utopian view. A sovereign country has been invaded, it has the right to use weapons it deems necessary to defend itself. What's so difficult about that? Russia can pack up and go home, then there will be peace.
These are pretty words used to gloss over the truth: war is hell. No one but the profiteers (on all sides) win.
Total victory, sovereignty, defend ITSelf, like a country is a person... These are all the ancient terms used to justify dragging confused children from homes and shoving rifles into the hands of young men who deserve to be trying to lose their virginity instead of their legs.
War is hell. Every bomb, every bullet should be fired in the service of firing as few after it as possible.
Every war ends in a meeting. Negotiate a conplete Russian withdrawal, or Putin's surrender. You can negotiate for anything, but fighting without talking while while communities are permanently displaced and traumatized is just sad evidence that defending Ukrainians lives or territory is no longer the US's goal.
Are we doing this because we're value Ukrainians? Or because we hate Russia?
We are a party. We are supplying weapons now that are going to kill Ukrainian civilians for years after the war ends. That's what cluster bombs do.
I fully support Ukraine's defense. That means exercising some judgement over what we contribute to. So many atrocities have been committed in our name. Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Israel, Nicaragua, Iran... We need to put some lid on how many innocent kids are worth the hypothetical gains we're expecting to get.
When this ends -- it will one day end -- I hope Ukrainians get a satisfactory deal. However I must ask:
It's been said -- often in bad faith -- that eastern Ukraine is Russian-sympathetic. That a major faction may actually prefer Russian rule. I find this disgusting, but if it turns out to be true, are we prepared to follow their wishes? Or do we disregard that because it conflicts with our preferences?
If Russia keeps the current territory, are you prepared to contend with all the deaths that occur between now and then? If the deaths and trauma DON'T yield gains, will you say, 'My god... Andrew as right. I insisted that more blood would yield a worthwhile gain and it didn't. That blood was split for nothing.'
I think war is fucking hell, and I don't think people are applying any judgement to their anger.
War is hell. That statement is both true and has lost all meaning, because no one really feels it.
We should be negotiating a peace by now. The suffering of these cluster bombs cause is immeasurable, as is the general suffering of this war.
Imagine ::: spoiler spoiler
beating a puppy to death with a golf club:::. Imagine the whole thing vividly, and then imagine
spoiler
pushing the pulpy body aside
and doing it again, and just repeating this exercise ad nausium for hours and hours. This is the kind of feeling we should experience when we read stories about this conflict, if we had any concept of what a war is. And when we debate whether to use cluster bombs, that's like debating whether to use
spoiler
a nine iron or crush the puppy's skull slowly with a boot
. One is definitely, definitely DEFINITELY WORSE, and should NEVER BE DONE, but both are awful and should make us so physically ill to think about that we would do anything at all -- such as negotiate an end to the war! -- to avoid doing it.
What is there to negotiate? Russia can end the war whenever they want just by going home. Do you think Ukraine should just abandon its citizens in the occupied territories to the whims of a genocidal maniac?
I don't have the energy for fights. Just look at some of the other comments I posted. The TLDR is that we need to always be guided by actually acting in the interests of vulnerable Ukrainians, and that requires ending the war, and negotiation is how wars end. It's not surrender, it's not appeasement, it's how wars end even when you win. What's happening now is mostly driven by US interests to weaken a geopolitical foe and is totally divorced from concern for the people on the ground. Cluster bombs prove it.
I don't think you or me or anyone in this thread would ever, ever support the use of cluster bombs in a place where we intended to raise our children or children's children. Does that make sense? Their use is just evidence that hurting Russia is the point. Negotiation is how you do the actual thing people seem to believe fighting does.