Trump allies launch secretive scheme to divide Biden support: report
Trump allies launch secretive scheme to divide Biden support: report
Saw this today, and ... well, I'm not going to be so forgiving to people suggesting to vote Third Party rather than vote for Biden. If Trump wants me to do something, and you want me to do that same something, that tells me you're aligned with Trump.
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With Biden, we have someone in the White House who actually gives a shit whether Palestinians get to live.
Biden is, and always has been, a full throat-ed Zionist. He's maybe the furthest right Democrat on this issue from his cohort/ demographic of senators. He's hard right in this way. Further right than Trump. You are projecting nuance and your own desire to belief that Biden is good on Israel onto Biden beliefs. But by Biden's own words and his stated beliefs, he is doing pretty much exactly what we would expect him to do in support of Zionism. If you map current actions onto his previously stated beliefs, nothing is out of order. The only change has bee some lip-service sound byte level saber rattling. There is no need to project deep nuance onto the situation if you just look at Biden's words and policy positions and map them to what he does. He lines up as a squarely Neo-conservative Zionist in rhetoric (preter Israels advancement of the genocide of the Palestinian people post October) and has lined up squarely as a Neo-conservative Zionist in action. He makes decisions and acts like the person he said he is.
The alternative is Trump. Tell me Trump's position on Palestine.
Yeah see you are doing it again. Why do you want Trump to win?
His point is that Trump’s position is to absolutely flatten Palestine, and that would be far worse than Biden continuing his half-assed pussyfooting.
When the only viable options for president are Trump or Biden, why would anybody who actually cares about Palestinian lives not do what they could to prevent Trump from turning them into glass and ash?
His point is that Trump’s position is to absolutely flatten Palestine, and that would be far worse than Biden continuing his half-assed pussyfooting.
No fucking shit. Every idiot talking head is parroting the identical argument. And its not working, which is my point.
Trump isn't president, Biden is. So Trump being better or worse is irrelevant and the argument is worthless. And that's what they and (perhaps?) you don't seem to get. The rhetorical approach of blaming Trump/ claiming Trump is worse, is having the opposite effect that I assume you think it should have. The argument they and you are making isn't gaining Biden support, it is weakening support for Biden, and the insistence on this failed rhetorical approach is currently costing us the general.
Fucking stop. Stop apologizing for Biden. Stop defending it. Stop excusing it. Start demanding Biden do better or we're fucked and you've guaranteed us Trump.
You can both demand Biden do better and still meaningfully vote against Trump. These are not mutually exclusive actions.
By all means, threaten to not vote for him. Write him a letter saying why you refuse to donate to his campaign. Hold him accountable for his part in not condemning Israel and withdrawing support for them. But when the time comes in this election year, if you don't actually vote for the Democrat candidate, you are undeniably tipping the scale in favor of the more genocidal candidate.
It's not that anybody arguing to vote for Biden wants him to win. It's just that nobody here wants Trump to win instead.
If you can't understand the cost of Trump winning, good luck to you, and thanks for ruining it for the rest of the country.
I'm doing what again? I asked about Trump for the first time.
When you vote for candidates you compare and contrast their positions on the same topic.
I read your long post about Biden is a Zionist so how does that compare to Trump's ideas on Palestine?
Its irrelevant because right now, Trump isn't president. Biden is.
You apologetics are costing us this election. Stop.
If you mean "us" as a third-party voter, you will never win the election as long as the system is still first past the post.
If you mean "us" as a Republican, then all I can say is that you're the problem for not taking the trash out and letting him run again in 2024.
By 'us' I mean any one who doesn't want Trump to be the next president.
Your rhetoric is costing us this election.
Fuck, I don't want him as a president either!
The people abstaining from voting or voting third party need to get their heads out of their asses and understand they're not doing anything but helping that insurrectionist turnip by doing so. If they aren't willing to consider that their actions can have that consequence, they weren't going to use their vote in any meaningful way to begin with.
The people abstaining from voting or voting third party need to get their heads out of their asses and understand they’re not doing anything but helping that insurrectionist turnip by doing so. If they aren’t willing to consider that their actions can have that consequence, they weren’t going to use their vote in any meaningful way to begin with.
You don't seem to understand that you are the one with their heads up there ass and have been this whole time, to the point where its not even clear that this election is salvageable. How you are arguing that people should vote doesn't work and isn't convincing people to support Biden. Its having the opposite effect. If you keep relying on this approach to rhetoric, you are guaranteeing we'll get Trump as president. The only thing that is working is upping the pressure on Biden to do better, and apologizing for his shittiness to date by arguing that "We'll Trump is probably worse" is basically an argument to not support Biden, so just stop apologizing for him. Start calling on him and his apologists to demand better; its the only thing that stands an icecubes chance in hell of saving this election for him/ us. He needs to feel so isolated and see the writing on the wall so plainly that he see's himself as having no other option.
Saying you'll be supporting him in-spite of his shitty policy positions means he doesn't have to move to your policy position. And there are enough people out there that aren't going to vote for this guy based on his policy positions that he wont win without them. Brow beating and wagging your finger at them isn't going to change them. You have to change Biden. Continuing an approach that is driver voters away from Biden is stupid. Change your approach. Make your arguments to Biden. Call into radio shows. Share you're new opinion online and don't let up. We lose if Biden doesn't change his policy position and months of apologetic (both online and in media) may have cost us the ability to win this election.
I understand where you're coming from, but respectfully, I disagree with how effective it would be. If telling somebody that their actions will lead to a Trump victory and explaining how much worse that will be not only for Palestinians but for Americans doesn't convince them to choose the lesser of two evils, nothing short of replacing Biden in the next election will work.
Skepticism runs really deep in the current political climate, and even if Biden changed his mind tomorrow and withdrew support, those voters are still going to distrust the motives behind it. For all they believe, it's an election year, and Biden is just making an empty promise to stay in power. He could easily turn around and resume support once he regains his position, and they're not going to trust that he won't when they "know" he was more than happy to support their genocide before he got in trouble for it.
That's not to say I am supporting Biden or apologizing for his actions. I'm right there with you when it comes to trying to demonstrate my dislike for his handling of the conflict, but I'm also voicing my concerns that whatever election cycle Trump is participating in isn't the time to practice a hard line stance on voting third party to express your dislike of both the Republican and Democratic candidates.
Skepticism runs really deep in the current political climate, and even if Biden changed his mind tomorrow and withdrew support, those voters are still going to distrust the motives behind it.
I agree. If not for the apologists making excuses for Biden's shitty policy positions (Any blue will do/ Trump is worse), we maybe could have gotten to him early enough to salvage this mess. But continuing to apologize for Biden's shitty policies is continuing to damage his electoral chances. Its the only option we have at this point, barring a complete rebellion at the convention.