Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won?
If it must be fully spelled out, it is that you cannot rope people whose politics is premised on empathy into supporting genocide and you will lose unless you demand better. If you want to fight against the forces of reaction, you cannot triangulate towards them, you have to actually have a semi-principled political program, not one premised on tokenization and "vote for us or the other guy will kill you even more".
Every fucking thing she said was scrutinized [...]
You are saying this in response to people saying they wouldn't tolerate genocide.
That's cool, you got what you want now and Gaza is becoming Israel new beach front.
There have been no policy changes. This is your ghouls running the show, 13 months of unconditional support for genocide. If any part of "the electorate" owns this, it is yours. You did not step up and say, "no more, that is too far".
Though of course the party does not care about you and they are thr ones making these policy decisions with donor input.
I hope you meet a Palestinian that got family killed someday and tell them that you didn't support a genocide supporter.
I already know many Palestinians that have lost family. I organize with some of them, their views are my views on this. You clearly aren't embedded in this community because you assume everyone else is just as detached.
That'll make them feel funny inside.
Palestinians are not your rhetorical toy to play with when you run out of ways to handle your cognitive dissonance for having sold your soul to support someone that lost anyways. Please take some time to do self-criticism now that you have objective proof that you were not being strategic or smart about this, as you clearly gave up on being morally correct.
I am surprised it even needs to be said. I guess you prefer to just rely on snark and really don't know? Even if you only read Wikipedia you would be familiar with Euromaidan. Therr is of course the aftermath, the ethnic supremacist violence in Donbas, the murder of trade unionists, the launching of Ukrainification campaigns, of multiple simultaneous separatist movements, of the coalescing of the far right under groups like Right Sector, who would become the shock troops against Sombas civilians.
So let me get this straight... Your position is that instead of being a pawn of the Democrats who are at least pushing back against Israel
That is not what is happening. It is the exact opposite: Democratic politicians presided over and supported this genocide with near-unanimous agreemeny with one another. Israel, again, receives unconditional material and diplomatic support from the Biden-Harris regime.
I think I was clear on this, so you are really juat revealing your own lack of familiarity.
I should instead be a pawn of the Republicans
Am I telling you to use Republicans' thought-terminating clichés? Am I telling you to vote for Republicans as if they are a lesser evil?
Maybe you should ask me more about what I am saying because you are taking serious liberties.
Israel knows if they just cut loose, they would face repercussions from the rest of the world,
Israel already cut loose. They are ethnically cleansing Gaza, reinvading and bombing parts of the West Bank, invadjng and bombing entire neighborhoods in Lebanon, and trying to pick a fight with Iran. The "rest of the world" is nearly unanimously against Israel on paper, with the process held up by the US and some of its lapdogs, though of course Europe also wants in on the imperialist action.
You are already seeing what the rest of the world can do when Israel cuts loose. It is shamefully little, but we should also take inspiration from those who do stand up. From the Palestinian resistance. From allied grouos in Syria and Iraq. From Iran. From Hezbollah. From Yemen. And from South Africa for doing nearly all of the work re: the ICJ.
The US is the dominant superpower and it supports Israel to the hilt. Work to undermine it so that the scakes can be tipped.
What do you think will happen to Palestine as a country
Palestine is not internationally recognized as a country. Palestine is an invaded and occupied regikn, with its people facing settler colonial genocide by ethnic supremacists.
if Trump succeeds in removing all the guardrails
What guardrails? Again, Isrsel has unconditional material support from the US. They recently murdered an American in thr West Bank and the US is giving is the "investigation pending" slow walk. None of "the rules", even the unwritten American exceptionalist ones, apply.
and gets to fulfill his wet dream of being a dictator?
lol that's not going to happen. I will bet you any amount of money.
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn't see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community
Speaking about this as if they are over and not something ongoing says a lot. I'm leaning towards this just being a lie.
, I'm afraid I didn't see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of "not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe" which, you know, kind of got us here.
I have never seen a pro-Palestinian protest with that message. That just sounds like you projecting your armchair liberal takes onto other people.
The people who organize pro-Palestinian protests are socialists and allied Palestinian groups, occasionally JVP. And while JVP is milquetoast and weak, even they aren't that mealy-mouthed.
But perhaps it's scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I'm unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn't raise a removed.
I wonder what slur you used while calling yourseld a good person.
Don't worry, we'll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
It id also telling that this is the only part of my comment that you replied to.
There's a difference between making the best of a bad situation and going to bat for it.
All of the people saying they would vote for Harris despite genocide and that you should too were going to bat for the bad situation.
Now that Harris has lost, many are choosing to lash out rather than question their own choices.
Your choices were someone who there is a chance of reigning in Israel
This is absurd. The Biden-Harris regime is literally a necessary partner in this genocide and Harris had the exact same line as Biden. They provide unconditional support.
someone that told them to do whatever they want with weapons we send.
Both major party options were that.
The latter is obviously a bad choice unless you agree with Israel.
And yet it is the blood price Harris supporters demanded be paid rather than getting off their asses to actually oppose the genocide and attempt to force the issue. And same regarding Genocide Joe before that.
Yes, liberals have been scratched and, as I predicted, they have split into two minds:
- Disbelief and resignation, a depression that can sometimes be broken through with reminders that they shouldn't have supported genocide.
- "We've gotta get a whole lot more racist"
The Democrat was someone committing genocide as part of the current administration. Your logic is, "we have to support genocide to maybe stop genocide later". Listen to yourself!
Re: fears of "democracy" itself dying:
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I don't care anyways and neither do most people. The American public sees no value in voting. The system offers them nothing. Bourgeois democracy is a farce that launders ruling class interests as popular sentiment.
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Bourgeois democracy will continue in the US after Trump and I will bet you any amount of money to this effect.
Anarchist instance btw.
Did you miss all of the people supporting a lesser evil Harris genocide? Many are in this thread right now trying to preemptively pass blame for everything Trump does onto those who opposed the genocide and refused to vote for its committers.
This is in no way a pro-Palestinian space, either. This thread has many examples of "the pro Palestinian protesters were a Russian plot!" and, "hope you enjoy Palestinians dying, non-voters!" sentiments.
No? Why are you making things up?
Name a "certain weapon" and how it is an enforced policy change.
I ask because I already know that there are no real restrictions, Israel has received constant deliveries of the weaoons it uses to commit this genocide.
No there aren't. Biden even bypassed Congress to get them more weapons faster.
The "finding out" should be that you lost while supporting genocide.
Shouldn't have done that, huh? Not very strategic or "adult in the room", was it?
It is, of course. Matginslization is created and maintained to suit ruling class interests, to ensure you blame the marginslized rather than the capitalist.
Why do you think immigrants are being scapegoated? Did they close the factories or fire the workers?
Normalizing genocide is not a hard choice, it just confronted boilerplate Dem propaganda and any pretense of being a good person.
If you are intetested in doing real political work it will not be something as minor as a single vote for 99% Hitler vs. 98% Hitler.
"Vote for me or my friend here will kill your dog" is the alleged scenario.
Though really the person making that threat is also saying they will kill your dog.
And yet, this very article we're commenting on is about war crimes getting worse.
Except it isn't because the US has been continually supolying the arms Israel needs to carry out this genocide and these supposed "restrictions" are a fig leaf.
Again, the Biden-Harris regime provides unconditional support to Israel and its genocide. Recycled clichés about lesser evils don't apply.
That's true, there is a difference! While the genocide would receive material support either way, Democrats receive your support and silence while Republicans do not.