My brother, who's a social democrat, claims that social democracy is not capitalism
My brother, who's a social democrat, claims that social democracy is not capitalism
This dude has a political science major... I tried telling him that in social democracy the workers don't own the means of production so it's still capitalism, but he doesn't listen. I remember went he stopped supporting my country's (Netherlands) neoliberal party (D66) and started supporting PvdA, our socialdemocratic party. I was hopeful that he was slowly turning to the left, but nothing's changed. What are some arguments against socialdemocracy that a social democrat might listen to?
You're viewing a single thread.
Well, your brother doesn't understand what capitalism is. Social democrats don't want workers to own the means of production; they're extremely naive liberals at best, or imperialists in disguise at worst. Social democracy was created as a counter to actual socialism, and after the illegal dissolution of the USSR, social democratic parties across Europe have been slowly dismantling any social welfare nets. The main reason why they haven't destroyed some institutions (e.g. the NHS in the UK) is because it would have a disastrous effect on public opinion (but they can certainly sabotage the institutions in less obvious ways, e.g. underfunding).
Social democracy in the imperial core is also dependent on the exploitation of the periphery. With more and more nationalist coups and socialist revolutions in the Global South, this will become blatantly obvious to the people of Europe.
It's worth noting that countries like Brazil (under the current government) could be considered social democracies, but they're fundamentally different from the ones in Europe in that they're anti-imperialist and cooperate with other anti-imperialist countries.
You could try showing him Second Thought's video on the subject.
You give Lula too much credit. He's cutting funding for stuff just the same right now, just doesn't have absolute shit foreign policy.
Also, Lula literally invaded Haiti on behalf of the UN in 2004, with forces only leaving in 2017.
As an example, Lula is currently launching initiatives for Public-Private Partnerships, which include fucking prisons. Would also like to note he signed the drug law that shot incarceration sky high in 2006 and remains to this day. Among plans for these prisons is "industrial prisons" aka prisoner slave labour
Yeah, my point was about the foreign policy, not domestic. And as you said, the government under Lula did participate in the invasion of Haiti, but it's still a far cry from what the socdem countries in Europe have done and continue to do
I think this might support the point that socdems are capitalists even more though. They just say they'll do things for the people then just don't when they're in power.
Social democracy in the imperial core is also dependent on the exploitation of the periphery. With more and more nationalist coups and socialist revolutions in the Global South, this will become blatantly obvious to the people of Europe.
I feel like Polish people are slowly getting the taste of their own medicine. Anti-Ukrainian sentiment (against the Ukrainians already here trying to bring home the bacon, not against the Zelensky government), getting super reactionary about protecting The Bordersโข (and the neolib party scolding fucking PiS for being too good to migrants/refugees), etc. Poland is becoming more similar to the Westernโข countries.