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Right here, what do you want?
Apparently you’re supposed to bring up politics when commenting on cat pictures or something.
Right here, what do you want?
Generally speaking, I think we want you to be a more intelligent voter.
You voted for somebody complicit in a genocide. You call that intelligent? Do you think it becomes intelligent because 70+ million other people also did it? Real "if everyone else jumped off a bridge" moment.
You voted for somebody complicit in a genocide.
I voted for someone whose values, and whose party's values, are closer to what I believe is best for average citizens in the United States of America, based on hard data over the course of decades. If the other option was better for Palestine then maybe your argument would make sense...but that isn't the case, so it doesn't.
Instead, 3rd party voters voted for candidates that had absolutely, positively, undeniably no chance of winning, and now they get a president that least represents their ideals.
Real intelligent.
What do you have to say for yourself?
I've historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
Voting 3rd party in America sends the message to the losing party that if they wanted that vote there is policy they need to adopt. There are things they need to change.
Issue in this election is even if every 3rd party vote went to kamala, she would have still lost, because they ran THAT MUCH of a terrible campaign. Their message was tone deaf. It was generic and lifeless. I could have been a better campaign manager for them and frankly that's sad.
People get pissy when you criticize dems, but the fact of the matter is they are very much the problem in this country too. Saying they aren't as bad as Republicans only speaks to just how awful they are, not how good dems are. Until people recognize this and demand change everyone is going to be stuck supporting one of two evils or maybe a 3rd party can steal enough support to replace one of the main 2.
All that hinges on trump not going full dictator. At this point I don't have confidence enough Americans would actually stand up to stop him.
I've historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
Me too except biden in 2020. And then immediately from the start it was endless frustration, disappointment and anger. Gaza is inexcusable. Fuck the democrats. Fuck America. This country got exactly what it fucking deserved. Karma for meddling in the rest of the worlds affairs by the capitalist imperialist uniparty that pretends to be at odds with each other over social wedge issues yet is United in keeping the entire world under its boot. Now america gets to experience the collapse of the imperial core.
Needless to say I didn’t repeat my mistake of voting for democrats in 2024. I’ll never vote for them again.
I’ve historically voted 3rd party. This past election i voted for a party that did not represent me or the policies I support, all out of fear of orange man. What did compromising my values do? Fuck all.
And? Voting 3rd party would have done fuck all for you too. And you wouldn't have been helping to potentially keep an anti-democratic felon rapist from the Oval Office.
Voting 3rd party in America sends the message to the losing party that if they wanted that vote there is policy they need to adopt.
It also helps anti-democratic felon rapists become the most influential person on the planet. People who adulted up and voted Dem instead of 3rd party in 2020 did actually prevent that person from taking office. It isn't a full-proof plan. But it works sometimes.
because they ran THAT MUCH of a terrible campaign
Maybe so. But you aren't accounting for the MASS misinformation being peddled to Americans. We just elected an anti-democratic felon rapist. That isn't normal. That happened because the internet is frying a ton of American's brains and they aren't acting rationally because they're so misinformed. The guy about to be sworn in as our leader went off on a tangent about immigrants EATING OUR FUCKING PETS and Americans absorbed that shit hook, line, and sinker. As far as I'm concerned stupid Americans are more to blame than a shoddy campaign. Especially since the other guy's campaign consisted of TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRANTS EATING OUR PETS and mentioning that he had CONCEPTS OF A PLAN.
People get pissy when you criticize dems
Personally, I get pissy because I actually bothered looking up both party's voting history and criminal conviction history and I know voting Dem is a WAY, WAY better option for average Americans than voting Republican or 3rd party at this point in American history.
maybe a 3rd party can steal enough support
Lol. This isn't a video game. There's no cheat code. No 3rd party has done the work to get representatives elected locally across the nation, slowly building a coalition to eventually get enough clout to put up a presidential candidate that stands a chance. That involves years, decades, of back breaking work. Anyone that tries voting for a 3rd party candidate in a presidential election now, or anytime in the near future, is living in a deep, deep fantasy simulation.
All that hinges on trump not going full dictator. At this point I don’t have confidence enough Americans would actually stand up to stop him.
Guess those 3rd party voters should have put their fantasies aside and voted intelligently. Too late now.
If every third party vote had gone to kamala she would have still lost substantially. The dems shitty campaign, not allowing a democratic primary (repeatedly) and tone deaf policies/messaging is what caused them to lose the easiest election ever. Full stop. They're not going to ever change. Thinking grassroots will take over the party shows you aren't paying attention. Thinking ranked choice voting will swoop in and save the day shows you aren't paying attention.
But ranked choice voting was passed a while ago and upheld in a recent referendum in alaska. State level electoral reform is the way forward to viable third parties.
(IMO STAR voting is better than RCV, but either is a vast improvement to our current hostage situation known as First-past-the-post voting)
There is a growing number of states that have banned ranked choice, even on the city level. Many of these same states prohibit voter led ballot initiatives. In case you were wondering, their state reps are stacked primarily on one side of the aisle. What's your solution to overcoming that?
You done the right thing, don't fall for the psyops.
Kamala's campaign was not that terrible in comparison to the state of Trump. Your fellow citizens failed you by letting that eejit gain ground.
Saying they aren’t as bad as Republicans only speaks to just how awful they are, not how good dems are.
I am an anarchist. I've never voted. (Not American) But, Bush, Clinton, Obama, much of the same. Trump takes us down a dangerous path. One in which dissident and protest will be squashed.
One in which dissident and protest will be squashed.
All of which already has been going on for decades by both capitalist imperialist parties. Kent state in the 1960s for example!
Yes that’s when it started. We’re now at the exponential stage with the nations pick running on shooting protestors, executing leftists and putting ‘vermin’ in camps.
No offense but you are not American, who is us?
The world. More immediately, the west. Him and his daft son already meddling in our countries affairs.
I am an anarchist.
That sounds quite interesting! What do you do that relates to or supports anarchy? (Except not voting obviously)
Counter-economic shit (Agorist).
Helped launch/run the first darknets (pre-silkroad), currently in crypto pushing the p2p monetary movement.
Got any fun reads on this p2p monetary movement? I'm quite interested.
Some good long reads here
Not sure about fun, these maybe a bit more compact tho
https://ergoplatform.org/en/blog/2021-04-26-the-ergo-manifesto/
https://docs.ergoplatform.com/uses/cbdc/
And plenty of interesting things being worked on
https://docs.ergoplatform.com/uses/chaincash/
Kamala’s campaign was not that terrible in comparison to the state of Trump.
This. So many people are trashing Kamala's campaign while completely ignoring the dumpster fire campaign Trump ran. Probably because Trump being a dumpster fire is just commonly accepted by now. The guy talked about immigrants eating people's pets and admitting that he only had concepts of plans. It was comical.
But everyone has to focus on Kamala's campaign because Democrats have ALWAYS been held to a higher standard.
She had to be flawless and he got to be lawless.
Shameful.
The Trump campaign is only a dumpster fire if you're a blind centrist who refuses to recognize the strength of the enemy.
The Trump campaign was exactly what his voters wanted. It was hours and hours of their god king and his cronies yapping their mouths about any racist thought that popped into their head. He brought up all the problems that his supporters are facing, and he promised change. It didn't matter that his ideas for change are stupid, or lies, because his opponent was outright denying there were problems at all.
You can hate Trump as much as you want, but his campaign was clearly, grossly more effective than Harris. Whereas Democrats were arguing over all the blunders Harris/Walz was making, the Republicans were lockstep behind their golden god who promised to make all their wildest dreams come true. That's how you win elections in the U.S., and it's why everyone with a brain knew the election would be contested in the best case scenario.
Told you so?
But we told them so.
Vote 3rd party and an anti-democratic felon rapist will be your leader.
Then it happened.
Could they also tell us I told you so?
3rd party voters, "Focus on these issues or we won't vote for you and you will lose."
Dems didn't listen to voters and instead moved closer to corporations/conservatives.
Then it happened.
Dems didn’t listen to voters and instead moved closer to corporations/conservatives.
And now those 3rd party voters who didn't want that, are getting that, to the extreme.
It doesn't matter what they wanted, since every single 3rd party vote (including right wing third parties) could have gone to Kamala and she still would have lost.
But that doesn't change my comment.
First of all, 3rd party voters could make the difference in any given election because multiple elections have been much closer than this one. They had no idea whether they were going to make the difference or not when they filled out their ballots.
Secondly, many, if not most, of those 3rd party voters REALLY didn't want Trump, but they also wanted a 3rd party canidate more than Harris. Now they get Trump, their least favorite pick. And again, they filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to be responsible for that happening or not.
Also, while it didn't matter overall, at least Wisconsin would have swung Harris if she got the majority of 3rd party voters, not even all of them. So it did matter in some states, even though probably not in enough.
But the point is they COULD have made the difference and for all they knew at the time were making the difference because in other elections 3rd party votes have made the difference. If anything, it not mattering in this election is just going to embolden them to vote 3rd party again in another election where we find out afterward that it really would have made the difference.
And it's not like there's any reality at all where their 3rd party candidate could have won, so why take that massive gamble? The bottom line is that we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election, so it's patently stupid to vote 3rd party in a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Now consider all the people that stayed home and didn’t vote in protest. People seem to like leaving them out.
Whenever I see people bring that up, there seems to be an assumption that Kamala definitely would have won if more people voted. Maybe that's true, but who's to say? I do agree that Dems need to increase turnout if they want to remain competitive, and I hope they do that by running a better campaign rather than banking on the idea that being "not Trump" will be enough to win. I'm not optimistic about that though.
Fair point. But I’ll add that conservatives show up to vote. It’s almost a given that trump got all he was going to get. Of the 90,000,000 people that chose not to- it’s safe to assume that many of them would have voted for Kamala had it not been for the single issue non-voters, or protest non-voters.
I agree with the rest of your point. And well said.
Would've happened regardless of my vote and the votes of Green/PSL voters. Your candidate had the worst electoral performance since the Republicans took California. Would've needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism, instead y'all chose to stuff your fingers in your ears and dismiss any and all criticism and proceeded to eat shit, as we told you would happen. You can't pin this one on us, the failure is on your candidate and party.
Would’ve needed a better candidate and a party that actually listens to criticism
Liberals (and independents) complained that Biden was too old (despite Trump being equally old) and it became a serious issue and they replaced him with a younger candidate. That's called listening to criticism.
You can’t pin this one on us
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It's not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn't your fault after the fact, when you didn't know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That's like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn't hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The fact remains that it's patently stupid to vote for a 3rd party presidential candidate because we are NOWHERE NEAR a 3rd party winning a presidential election. I mean the 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. And that was magician Jill Stein, who disappears into thin air for years at a time and magically reappears a couple months out from every election.
Not retroactively. But every single 3rd party voter filled out their ballots not knowing if they were going to make the difference or not. Because some elections have come a lot closer than this one and 3rd party voters did make the difference. It’s not particularly meaningful to me that you point out it wasn’t your fault after the fact, when you didn’t know whether it would be your fault or not at the time. That’s like a kid admitting he threw the kitchen knife at his sister but it didn’t hit her so everything is totally fine and the subject can be closed.
The question is what you're looking at. If your primary concern is understanding why Kamala lost, then it is very relevant to point out the fact that we did not cost her the election. If your primary concern is establishing the moral standing of individual voters, then I suppose it's less relevant.
To be perfectly clear, if we cost a candidate like Kamala the election, I would be perfectly fine with it. I wish that we did represent a larger contingent of the vote so that we had the power to deny a win to any candidate that doesn't meet our demands. It would be preferable if our kitchen knife hit and we could claim credit for it. Unfortunately, your candidate lost for other reasons.
If course, the only analysis liberals seem capable of is looking at the moral purity of individual voters. It is inconceivable to punch up and critique our rulers. The Democratic party can never fail, it can only be failed. This aversion to self-critique and reflection is itself part of why the Democrats failed, and why they will continue to fail.
How?
The Democrats insisted their candidate was good enough, but we weren't on board? We said that, and got ignored, and the Dems lost
Nobody was denying that was an outcome, just that it was a daft one. That's why they were trying to convince you it was daft. You could only say 'Told you so', if what they were saying wasn't true.
It wouldn't have changed the outcome regardless of how we voted or what we said. But the criticisms we were making weren't just about our own values or preferences, they were things that would have allowed her to appeal to a much broader section of the population. It was not our willingness to criticize and take a stand that caused this, but the Democrats' stubbornness and unwillingness to listen to criticism.
Ultimately, it just goes to show the necessity of building a better party from the ground up. The one thing Democrats are supposed to be good for is keeping Trump out, they've abandoned any pretence of actually helping people or not committing mass murder, and they can't even do that. It's a sinking ship.
It introduced apathy that could’ve changed the outcome. You’re not including all the people who didn’t vote.
There were no easy policies that would’ve led to victory. Doesn’t matter if the policies are objectively good or popular as she was up against a misinformation machine. She ran a near perfect campaign in the time she had. And Biden only came back initially because yous already voted Trump in once. You got exactly the government you deserve unfortunately.
Could’ve united and killed the republicans party. Locked Trump up. Shifted the Overton window back and gotten some leftists as the opposition but looks like you’ll need to do it the hard way.
She ran a near perfect campaign in the time she had.
Near perfect? Is that a joke?
She ran on the status quo which is absolutely not working for a ton of people. She campaigned with Dick Cheney, an immensely unpopular politician across the entire political spectrum responsible for a pointless war that killed countless people. She completely failed to adapt to a changing media environment with streamers and the like, which the Republicans took full advantage of. The messaging she did have was completely unfocused, the one moment she had of doing something right was calling Republicans weird, which she then dropped because of civility-brain. And that's not even talking about Palestine!
What on earth did she do right strategically? Near perfect? I can hardly think of a single thing she didn't screw up! And the result was, again, the worst electoral result since the Republicans took Cali. Absolutely insane thing to assert.
Could’ve united and killed the republicans party. Locked Trump up. Shifted the Overton window back and gotten some leftists as the opposition but looks like you’ll need to do it the hard way.
No, none of that could've happened. Leftist defectors were not a large enough contingent to have swung the election. Even if we were, and had fallen in line, it wouldn't have done shit for the Overton window, it would've kept going right and shown the Democrats that there's zero consequences for moving so far right that they're actively committing genocide. This idiotic and self-defeating strategy of falling in line behind the lesser evil is what the left has been doing for generations and it's how we got here in the first place.
Question for you: where do you think Trump came from? Do you think he's just a random fluke, or were there root causes that allowed someone like him to become popular? Follow up, do you think that a problem can be addressed using the same approach that created the problem in the first place?
Y'all are completely conservative in your thinking, you're just trying to cling to a past that is gone for good. If the Democratic party fails to adapt to changing conditions, then it will die, and the only question is how much wasted effort we put into it before we realize it's a lost cause.
She wasn’t trying to win your vote. The population votes for the status quo. Deviation from that would’ve led to her loss. You weren’t going to get another Sanders in the time she had.
Has there been an American president who wasn’t contributing one way or another to a genocide? Idk why people act like that’s surprising. They’re all war criminals. There’s a difference between that and actively egging them to ramp it up while using ‘Palestinians’ as a slur.
The Cons would’ve felt the consequences, as Trumps crimes were laid bare over the subsequent years and the extent of their delusion publicly dissected. Embarrassment is one of the few things fascists understand.
This vacuum would’ve led to space for leftist voices to emerge.
No Trump was not a fluke, but you’d assume in the Information age someone so blatantly acting against your interests wouldn’t be your pick.
Dems aren’t ever going to solve anything either way. It’s just a nicer environment for the rest of us to try and do so.
She wasn’t trying to win your vote. The population votes for the status quo. Deviation from that would’ve led to her loss. You weren’t going to get another Sanders in the time she had.
Oh, well then, my congratulations to President Harris on winning the election.
No they fucking don't vote for the status quo when the status quo is fucked. Trump at least postures that he's different (even though he's more of the same) which is why it's hardly surprising that he won.
No Trump was not a fluke, but you’d assume in the Information age someone so blatantly acting against your interests wouldn’t be your pick.
He wasn't my pick.
Dems aren’t ever going to solve anything either way. It’s just a nicer environment for the rest of us to try and do so.
And what does trying to do so look like? Would it, perhaps, involve forming an organization, say, a party, that actually represents the interests of the people?
I guess you prefer anti-democratic felon rapists over run-of-the-mill Democrats.
Thanks for being honest about it.
Which third party candidate is an anti-democratic felon rapist?
If you're implying that I'm not voting for the Democrats and thereby supporting Trump, sleep well knowing I didn't vote Blue in 2016 or 2020 either.
Which third party candidate is an anti-democratic felon rapist?
Right over your head.
If you’re implying that I’m not voting for the Democrats and thereby supporting Trump
I'm not implying. It's a simple fact. One that you don't appear to be capable of understanding.
But please, keep being a stable genius by voting for candidates that cannot, and will not, win until their parties do the work necessary to become viable, which they aren't.
That shit makes you look real smart.
They don't win because people don't vote for them. People would literally rather support a party that doesn't align with their views. That's the part going over your head.
People would literally rather support a party that doesn’t align with their views.
Wow. They must be dumbfucks.