News @lemmy.world Lee Duna @lemmy.nz 9mo ago

Hawaii rules against public carrying of guns without permit citing ‘aloha spirit’

www.theguardian.com Hawaii rules against public carrying of guns without permit citing ‘aloha spirit’

State’s high court upholds the Hawaiian Spirit Law and quotes The Wire in apparent rebuke to US supreme court: ‘They the old days’

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It blows my mind that people who correctly identify the reasons the war on drugs is a failure seem to expect the same policies and logic to work on guns.
- Because gun laws have worked in other places. Canada, Australia, The UK, etc don't have this problem.
  
  One of the best things the govt here in aus did in my lifetime, was tighten gun laws and buy back as many guns as they could. While we're by no means free of gun violence and homicides, we very rarely have incidents like mass/school shootings.
  
  I would be cautious of attributing the falling rates of firearms related crimes to the 1996 buyback [source]. It can be argued that the rates were already dropping prior to the 1996 buyback. This can also be further shown in other countries around the world that didn't enact such laws. For example, all of western Europe has shown declines in homocide rates since the 90s [source]:
  
  This matches up with Australia [source]:
  
  And, it matches up with the UK [source]:
  
  The same goes for the USA, and Canada.
  
  we very rarely have incidents like mass/school shootings.
  
  For the sake of clarity, here is a list of all the mass shootings that have happened in Australia -- from that list, I count 24 since the firearms buyback in the wake of the Tasmania mass shooting.
  
  Actually, comparing violent gun crimes in the US and Australia reveals significant differences in homicide rates, mass shootings, and overall gun violence.
  
  Homicide Rates
  
  Intentional Homicide Rate: The intentional homicide rate in Australia was 0.74 per 100,000 residents in 2021, showing a decline from previous years[6]. In contrast, the US has a significantly higher rate[1].
  
  Gun Homicide Rate: Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 33 times greater than in Australia[1].
  
  Mass Shootings
  
  Mass Shootings: Australia has seen a significant decrease in mass shootings since the implementation of stricter gun laws in 1996. Since then, there has been only one mass shooting in the 26 years following the enactment of these laws[4]. In contrast, the US has experienced well over 100 mass shootings in the same period[4].
  
  Overall Gun Violence
  
  Gun Violence: The US had 10 times higher death rates from gun violence than Australia[5]. This is despite similar rates of mental illness in both countries, suggesting that high rates of gun ownership and access to firearms in the US, rather than mental illness, are significant contributors to gun violence[5].
  
  Firearms per Resident: The US has a much higher number of guns per resident compared to Australia. In the US, there are approximately 393 million guns owned among a population of about 335 million. In contrast, Australia has 3.5 million guns among a population of 26.4 million[5].
  
  Gun Control Measures
  
  Gun Control Laws: Australia implemented more restrictive firearms legislation in 1996 following several high-profile killing sprees. The laws included a ban on the sale and importation of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, a requirement for individuals to present a legitimate reason and wait 28 days to buy a firearm, and a massive, mandatory gun buyback program[4][8]. These measures have been associated with a significant decrease in gun-related homicides and mass shootings[4].
  
  In summary, the US has higher rates of homicide and overall gun violence compared to Australia. These differences are influenced by stricter gun control laws in Australia and the higher prevalence of firearms in the US.
  
  Citations: [1] On gun violence, the United States is an outlier https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier [2] Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime [3] The Effects of the 1996 National Firearms Agreement in Australia on Suicide, Homicide, and Mass Shootings https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/1996-national-firearms-agreement.html [4] What can Australia's reaction to a mass shooting teach us about guns and gun control? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-can-australias-reaction-to-a-mass-shooting-teach-us-about-guns-and-gun-control/ [5] Comparing Mental Illness, Gun Violence in the U.S., Australia and U.K. https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/mental-illness-gun-violence.php [6] Australia Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2024 https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate [7] [PDF] Firearms theft in Australia : a six-month exploratory analysis - Australian Institute of Criminology https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tbp020.pdf [8] Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia [9] Australia vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime [10] Crime in Australia - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia [11] Gun Control in Australia - FactCheck.org https://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/ [12] Gun control: what makes Australian and US laws so different? - Law Society Journal https://lsj.com.au/articles/gun-control-what-makes-australian-and-us-laws-so-different/ [13] Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback [14] Australia’s homicide rate is down over 50% from the 1990s, despite a small blip during COVID https://theconversation.com/australias-homicide-rate-is-down-over-50-from-the-1990s-despite-a-small-blip-during-covid-202730 [15] PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/13/facebook-posts/no-viral-post-isnt-correct-australias-gun-laws-vio/ [16] U.S. Gun Policy: Global Comparisons https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons [17] Mass shootings and firearm https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf [18] World Bank Open Data https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=AU [19] Australian Gun Control Measures Are Ineffective (From Gun Control, P 260-268, 1992, Charles P Cozic, ed. -- See NCJ-160164) https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/australian-gun-control-measures-are-ineffective-gun-control-p-260 [20] Gun Deaths by Country 2024 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country [21] International https://www.fsb.miamioh.edu/lij14/p_taylor.pdf [22] Mental Illness and Gun Violence in the United States, Australia, and United Kingdom: Clinical and Public Health Challenges - The American Journal of Medicine https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(23)00738-6/fulltext [23] Implications of the Australian Experience With Firearm Regulation for US Gun Policy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6187769/ [24] The stats https://www.gunsafetyalliance.org.au/the-stats/ [25] Criminal use of handguns in Australia - Australian Institute of Criminology https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi361
  
  count 24 since the firearms buyback
  
  And the US has roughly 13x the population of Aus, so you would expect the US to only have 312 mass shootings in the same time frame, but the actual number is massively bigger than that.
  
  Also it's extremely disingenuous to try passing off a decrease in overall homicide rates as a relevant argument against un control. Especially when you're not even considering the actual relevant statistics.
  
  The majority of guns crimes in Canada are committed with guns that were smuggled in from tithe US, where it is (relatively speaking) trivially easy to obtain guns.
  
  America's lax attitude towards weapons directly leads to Canada's gun death problem.
  
  America’s lax attitude towards weapons directly leads to Canada’s gun death problem.
  
  The CBSA should be handling that, though; it's the CBSA's job to catch people engaging in illegal border activties, e.g. firearms smuggling (I am assuming that you are insinuating that it is the USA's job to fix our problem).
  
  They do catch a lot, but no border control in any non-authoritarian country can catch 100%
  
  Based on what metric are you making that claim? Canada, for example, certainly still has an issue with firearm related crimes [source]. It is also quite arguable that firearms laws even have an effect on reducing crime in general [source] (I will concede that this source, the fraser institute, isn't the most reliable, but their data does show some interesting things that cannot be ignored). Furthermore, it has been reported that the majority of handgun related crime, in Canada, is done with handguns that were illegally owned -- they were smuggled in from the USA.
  
  One could point to some trends of firearms rates decreasing and attributing them to firearms bans, but the devil is often in the details. For example, this study by Rand stated that firearms related crimes in Australia were already on a downward trend piror to the 1996 buyback, and similar dips in violent crime can be seen many other western countries that didn't adopt such strict gun-control measures -- violent crime, in general, appears that it has been on a downward trend for quite some time.
  
  Are you really trying to make a comparison without actually comparing the numbers?
  
  Comparing gun crimes in the US and Canada reveals significant differences in homicide rates, violent crimes, and robbery incidents involving firearms.
  
  Homicide Rates
  
  Gun Homicide Rate: In 2020, Canada's gun homicide rate was an eighth of the rate in the United States[2][4]. Despite being lower, Canada's rate is higher than many other wealthy countries and has been increasing[2].
  
  Violent Crimes
  
  Robberies with Firearms: In 2000, 41% of US robberies were committed with a firearm compared to 16% in Canada[3]. This indicates a higher prevalence of gun involvement in violent crimes in the US.
  
  Robbery
  
  Firearm Involvement in Robberies: Firearms were involved in 41% of robberies in the US compared to only 16% in Canada in 2000[7].
  
  Additional Insights
  
  Firearms per 100 Residents: The US has a much higher number of guns per 100 residents (88.8) compared to Canada (30.8), which correlates with higher rates of gun-related crimes[1].
  
  Gun Origin: A significant portion of guns used in crimes in Ontario, Canada, were traced back to the United States, indicating cross-border implications of US gun policies on Canadian gun crime[2].
  
  In summary, the US has higher rates of homicide, violent crimes, and robberies involving firearms compared to Canada. These differences are influenced by stricter gun control laws in Canada and the higher prevalence of firearms in the US.
  
  Citations: [1] Canada vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime [2] In fighting gun crime, Canada has an American problem https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/in-fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-1.6004198 [3] Statistics Canada – Catalogue no. 85-002-XPE Vol. 21 no. 11 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2001011-eng.pdf [4] reuters.com https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/ [5] Firearms, Accidental Deaths, Suicides and Violent Crime: An Updated Review of the Literature with Special Reference to the Canadian Situation https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p57.html [6] Canada and United States homicide rate 2022 | Statista https://www.statista.com/statistics/526539/canada-us-homicide-rate/ [7] Archived Content https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/011218/dq011218b-eng.htm [8] Charting gun violence in the United States | CBC News https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gun-violence-charts-us-1.6847911 [9] America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9217163/america-guns-europe-homicide-rates-murder-crime [10] NCJRS Virtual Library https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/canadas-low-gun-homicide-rate-proves-effectiveness-gun-control-gun [11] Number of robberies in the U.S. by weapon 2022 | Statista https://www.statista.com/statistics/251914/number-of-robberies-in-the-us-by-weapon/ [12] How the U.S. gun violence death rate compares with the rest of the world https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/10/31/1209683893/how-the-u-s-gun-violence-death-rate-compares-with-the-rest-of-the-world [13] Gun Violence in Canada - Connecticut General Assembly https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0882.htm [14] Canada vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
  
  If that dude could read, he would be so angry right now.
- Because guns are not the same as drugs. Hence the rules should be different.
- Do you need target practice to shoot heroin? Do you seek self medication by going out and waving a gun around? for some reason one seems much less threatening to the general populous than the other
- We’re all here wondering if this is to convince yourself, or just bad sarcasm.