There will be no peace in the Middle East under Trump, either
There will be no peace in the Middle East under Trump, either
The false notion that Trump oversaw a bloodless era of peace in the Middle East reveals a disturbing collective amnesia.
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Well, when neither candidates have meaningful differences on the issue you care the most about, there’s no meaningful reason to vote - that’s what caused the major vote collapse at the election.
You murdered Palestinians. I hope you're happy with your support of Trump's genocide.
Hey, I supported Harris - but you can’t ignore the fact that compared to Biden in 2020, Harris’s vote share practically collapsed - and her refusal to actively condemn Israel was a significant part of it.
Yup, she was an awful candidate that made several strategic mistakes - I don't deny any of that.
Still, Palestine would be better off if she somehow managed to eek out a victory.
Maybe what people who didn't vote and Trump voters wanted was a merciful yet very quick complete annihilation to Palestine, before summer comes. Yeah, it must have been this.
This argument is no different than the gaslighting corporations do when they tell people that saving the environment is the job of consumers. The people killing Palestinians are the Israelis, with the full support and endorsement of both the democrats and republicans. No voter is responsible for that. Voting Kamala would have no difference on the outcome, she publicly announced her full support for Israel continuing their genocide on multiple occasions.
And don’t give me that “Trump will kill them faster” bullshit. That argument is the stupidest you lot have ever made, and that’s saying a lot. You should be dropped in Gaza to try arguing it to the starving kids missing arms and legs.
“Oh, sorry, but I voted for the person who would kill you slower, so there’s nothing I can do!”
Either vote murdered Palestinians. What are you talking about?
One candidate promised to murder more and that does make a difference.
And that's only one big issue. Trump is planning to dismantle a lot of safeguards. Americans lives are about to get ultra shitty.
Must feel great only killing a few kids, huh?
If you had the power to save only one life would you take it, or let them die because you don't like your options?
You aren't as morally pure as you think. We have to do what we can with what we have.
Now they're all going to die.
All that is required for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing
You know what the lesser of two evils is?
Evil.
I'd easily take less evil than fascist evil. For anyone to not be able to distinguish the two is such a failure.
Heroically ignorant and without nuance.
Hush, child
So then enlighten us on what the right choice was in that context if you have answers to everything.
This isn't a fucking movie where one heroic group of people overturn a full government.
The genocide is happening regardless of who got elected. But now, there is absolutely no chance that the genocide ends. At least with Harris, there was a sliver of hope.
Gaza will be glassed now a 100%, and become a new beach front for Israel.
Good luck Ukraine, I hope that Europe steps up, because the Russian asset now has the control of the 3 branches.
And good luck Americans, because for the vast majority of you, life is about to get a lot worst.
But hey, at least you get to keep your fucking smug attitude of living in unicorn land. I mean, the guy openly said he would be a dictator on day 1, but somehow, Harris had to be fucking impeccable, otherwise, schmucks like would come out of the woodworks to spout your fucking "both sides are the same" rhetoric.
Again, I voted for Harris. I am disgusted with her and the Democrats for backing Israel.
It was not an OVERLOOKABLE decision. They intentionally did it. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Impeccable? This was low hanging fruit for Harris and she caved to expediency. Unless she really believes Israel should eliminate Palestinians, which again, isn't rocking my world.
The Democrat party needs to be dismantled or radically restructured. It has lost its moral compass.
WE NEED ANOTHER CHOICE. Backing Israel was not inevitable. It was a decision BOTH PARTIES made.
Sorry if my disagreeing with the Democrats while holding my nose and voting for them makes you angry.
On November 5th and leading up to it, the candidate were chosen. You absolutely need another choice and I wholeheartedly agree.
But the message you (you and any person that has the same message) kept hammering made sure that Trump won.
Blame for the DNC all you want, but the attitude of the Democrat voting base is also to blame.
I didn't start talking about it until after the election. Now is the time to change, not a year before an election.
Let's put this a different way. You were given the choice of saving only one of two children from a burning building, and actively chose to let both of them burn to death, because you couldn't save both.
Real superhero Karen energy, right there.
That's not how this works. That's called "justification". I voted for Kamala, BTW.
I really do believe now that the Democrats are encouraging the worst, dumbest, insane opponents hoping that they'll find one that will finally push people to vote Democrat EVEN THOUGH they offer nothing.
Democrats have been neoliberals since the time of the first Clinton campaign. The milquetoast candidates are a direct result of that.
If you voted, then I'll recind the analogy towards you. The 15 million democratic voters in 2020 that stayed home for whatever reason in 2024, still did exactly what I just portrayed. They had a choice to make, and they made the choice to do nothing, because things aren't perfect.
And I believe that the extra 15M votes in 2020 were an outlier (probably because of COVID) and we can't expect to see that kind of turnout again. Not unless something incredible happens.
And Kamala was not incredible.
Your argument is insane. For example, I would never, ever, ever expect a Jewish person to vote for a politician who is exterminating Jewish children, even if I could make a rational argument that their opponent is worse for Jewish people.
You need to contend with fundamental human nature and you need to recognize that the Democratic Party for the past 13 months has acted beyond the moral pale. They have violated the red moral lines drawn by the world since 1945 and have done so with pride and sometimes caprice.
Being petulant towards people who could not bring themselves to vote for a genocidaire, and treating their very human revulsion and horror as petulance, marks you as an untrustworthy person who is unserious about human rights or liberal values.
So when faced with a trolley problem, always just let it do whatever
Likening to an abstract hypothetical moral problem is very appropriate to the way you people think. At the end of the day politics for you is a lever you pull every few years and the catharsis or disappointment involved.
By the way, kindly save your "I told you so" and "trolley problem" bullshit for after Trump has allowed Israel to slaughter a larger number of children than Biden did for the past 13 months.
kindly save your “I told you so” and “trolley problem” bullshit for after Trump has allowed Israel to slaughter a larger number of children than Biden did for the past 13 months.
Why wait? What happens then, you wave a magic wand and all of a sudden it's rainbows and lollipops?
What happens then is that I will be responding to a moral argument based in facts, and not a fucking hypothetical that may as well be an excuse for genocide. If in 13 months the Trump administration has aided Israel in the slaughter of another 100,000 children, we can start talking about how voting Democrats as "damage mitigation" is a duty to humanity. Until then I will try my best to assume you're making the argument in good faith and that you truly believe that ending genocide is a moral priority.
Lol Trump was extremely happy to take part in the SuperGenocide in Yemen. If you think Biden's aid for the Gaza attack is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Not just a genocide, but a SuperGenocide! Wow!
One that began under Obama-Biden. The US played a similar but far limited role in the starvation of Yemen. It did not veto any UN resolutions, threaten the ICC or the ICJ, invite Bin Salman for unprecedented, record-breaking applause and ovations at Congress.
A nation-wide civil war that has raged for nearly ten years and where numerous sides are responsible for the death count. I should know, because I spent many nights in 2018-2019 with my Hadhrami friends discussing this war, joined their call-ins with Yemeni politicians and civil activists. I heard them complain about who they know died and who killed them.
And yet you sit here and tell me "buckle up, if you didn't like Biden working overtime to slaughter 100,000 children within a year", followed by hypotheticals. Stop telling me what may happen just because you cannot defend what has happened.
far limited role
Lol. They were not only supplying them the bombs, they were refueling the bombers in flight and even bombing by themselves. If you already agree the US is culpable for the deaths in Gaza, imagine how you'll feel if Trump adds those two ingredients to the party once more
No one in the Middle East conducts an aistrike without American or Russian help, except maybe Turkey. This is the last time I'll ask you to stop weighing the corpses of Gaza's children murdered by the Biden-Bibi alliance against "imagine this" and "imagine that." You are not going to excuse Biden, Harris or for that matter Obama.
Trump was also perfectly happy to use COVID against Americans who didn't support him when it was primarily in places with high population density.
Anyone who thinks he'll be better for Gaza is a god damned moron.
It can always get worse. Thinking otherwise is naive and privileged at best. Attempts at diplomacy and pushing for a cease fire even if it's not immediately effective is absolutely better than "there's no such things as Palestinians" and taking all the restrictions off Israel.
Nobody thinks he'll be better, but there's literally no way to be worse for Gaza than Biden was and Harris was going to be.
Id counter that and say if you didn't vote you would be "unserious" about human rights
The only people who voted for the genocidaire I would consider to be engaging in serious harm mitigation are those who also use every other means afforded to them to stop the genocide. As for the people who have little to say about the fact that they have been presented two genocidaires as presidents - and even less to do - you're even more grotesque when you invoke human rights.
You may be surprised to learn that Bibi wasn't on any ballots anywhere in the US.
You did have the option of voting for Harris who wants to pressure Israel into a cease fire or trump who wants Israel to finish off the Palestinians faster.
So, like the other guy already said, if you didn't vote for the one option who wanted to rein in the murder and also had a chance of getting more than 1% of the vote, you're an "untrustworthy person who is unserious about human rights or liberal values."
You may be surprised to learn that Bibi wasn't on any ballots anywhere in the US.
Record breaking ovations and applause for him in Congress, so why should I care?
Harris who wants to pressure Israel into a cease fire
So you're either a liar or a moron, huh.
What a tool
Here's a meaningful difference:
Harris supported a two-state solution with the eventual goal of an independent Palestine.
Trump will oversee the formal annexation of Gaza and the
West Bank"Judea and Samara", marking the end of any hope for a future Palestinian state.Harris supported a two-state solution with the eventual goal of an independent Palestine.
Yes, she "supported" it. But did she take or promise to take real steps towards that goal? NO. And don't tell me she promised to push for a ceasefire because she was lying.
Even if she took zero steps towards the goal, that's infinitely preferable to Trump's pushing for annexation of the occupied territories and dismantling the Palestinian Authority.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be Israeli.
Even if she took zero steps towards the goal, that's infinitely preferable to Trump's pushing for annexation of the occupied territories and dismantling the Palestinian Authority.
Normally I'd agree with that, but in the context of the current Israeli genocide that's straight up untrue, because doing nothing is allowing Israel to annex the occupied territories. That's literally what they're doing right now. You can't say "but the status quo could get worse" when the status quo is the worst things can realistically get. What Trump supports is what Israel is doing and Biden is allowing and Harris promised she'd allow.
Also, Israel wouldn't dismantle the PA until they're finally done annexing the West Bank, because the PA are their convenient puppets who if anything hamper Palestinian resistance. Hell, if they dismantled the PA maybe we'd see real resistance from the West Bank again (hence why they won't do that until they're near the end of their colonial project).