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If you live in a place where food service workers are underpaid and you don't tip, you're an asshole. This is not a morally defensible stance unless there is a system to protect those workers already in place.
You're right. I should just not go there at all, watch the business collapse, and see them beg for jobs at the next shitty restaurant. That's the better option apparently?
That is the high road tbh... plus you can just go to joints that not require tipping. They are on the rise.
Also, many places just slap 20% now anyway... so we are in some clown reality where it is now a service fee and owner can just take it because they pay minwage lol
Peasants can never win here.
Very few restaurants 'require tipping' to order there. That's a recent trend, automatic tips. Used to be if there are over X amount of people at the table, but some places made it automatic across the board.
Very few restaurants 'require tipping' to order there
That's changing in major cities esp tourist type area.
Even clowns in EU now expect tips if they think you are american...
Okay, but you're now arguing against your earlier assertion where you said that was common and is now going away. Schrodinger's Mandatory Tipping Restaurant, simultaneously common and uncommon.
when i said don't require tipping i meant chipotle type place.
apologies for confusion
Yes
The better option is to tip until a systemic change requires businesses to pay all workers at least minimum wage.
yes. you accidentally hit on the decent thing to do. if you can’t afford tipping in the context of a system that forces individuals to rely on it, go buy groceries.
They're not employed by me. Wages are between them and their boss. Any more from anywhere else should not be treated as anything other than the optionally-given gift it is.
Tipping culture essentially amounts to legalized wage discrimination.
You're correct. Their wage is often ~$3/hr. It's nearly slave labor.
And you think the customer is the asshole because the system works.
Customers who don't tip are. They are punishing a worker for the crimes of a system. The restaurant owner/manager doesn't suffer if you don't tip. Only the workers do. So until a change comes to the system where workers get paid minimum wage, not tipping isn't morally defensible.
You said it yourself, it's the system that needs to change. As long as we keep chasing our tails trying to blame the customer base instead of the real problem, the ones profiting keep laughing.
*edited 1st sentence for better phrasing
Okay? So push for better laws and higher minimum wage on one hand and until those changes are made, then tip with the other. We can do both at the same time. Right?
I would love to agree. Unfortunately this just circles us back to what ObjectivelyIncarnate said above me
While I'm totally for the workers being paid great, it's not really MY job to do so (unless i own the restaurant I'm eating at. And at those the waiters are paid way above average and don't need tips). Here we tip for excellent service, not the bare minimum to get my food on the table.
If you tip to pay salaries, YOU are the actual asshole that keeps a system alive that is the absolute dogshit in dystopian shitholes with no worker-rights like the US.
If you're patronizing a restaurant that underpays wait staff and refuse to tip the server, you're not only fucking them but you're supporting the system by going to the restaurant in the first place.
If you would've actually read the comment, you would've been in a clear advantage.
Where i live and eat, staff is paid fair and tips are given. But, as everywhere in this country, for especially good service and not because the customer is forced to because the employer doesn't pay wages because the system is broken.
I also said that at my restaurants, waiting staff is paid way above average, which is probably multiple times of your weird country's mininum. Do you even have a point?
Sure, let me help you! My point is that if you're patronizing a restaurant that underpays wait staff and refuse to tip the server, you're not only fucking them but you're supporting the system by going to the restaurant in the first place.
You don't even... Wow. Ok whatever. Suit yourself.
How does withholding a tip end the current system?
Stop going to such places. I don't go there (because we don't have that silly system). Why tip at all? Do u tip the cashier at the supermarket? Your IT-guy? Your mechanic? Your docs? The cops?
But for the sake of the argument: if noone would tip, noone would work as a waiter anymore and employers would have to pay decent salaries. You know, like everyone civilized would do. Instead you support a disgusting asshole employee by paying the staffs salary AND food. What's next? No salary at all and you should double-tip for rent too? It seems to work. Why not.
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We don't tip workers in those other fields you mentioned because they make a livable wage. Food service workers, particularly servers, often make less than minimum wage.
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I'm glad wherever you live pays their wait staff a livable wage. If that happened in the US, tipping wouldn't be the way it is now. Unfortunately the system has to change first. Until it does, if a customer patronizes a restaurant, they should tip. If someone can't afford to tip, they should stay home.
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The "invisible hand of the market" isn't going to solve this issue. A change in labor law will. We either need state or federal laws to protect food service workers. Then employers will be forced to pay their staff better and tipping won't be so compulsory.
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We could probably argue about "living wage" of a supermarket cashier. Here they all, at least, make minimum wage. So tipping cashiers should be equally fine as tipping waiters.
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Yes, the system is bad. Not the customer that don't wanna tip. If 100% would not tip, the system HAS to change as noone would work as a waiter anymore. Doesn't happen, so no change will ever happen. Except maybe paying them even less coz the customers compensate it willingly. Not ideal too, yes. Hence i would stop eating outside if i would live in such a system.
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Yes. Sure. But obviously it works great, so where's the need for change? People still wanna work waiting and people still tip. And considering you guys vote billionaires for your representative, it's all working as intended. There's even wiggle-room to milk you for even more... But i would hope for u guys that there ever will be some good change.
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