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Maybe I'm alone on this, but I found a lot of the story lines with Neelix from Voyager to be hard to watch.
If they'd only stopped making him so damned childish.
Ever seen Avenue5? Spike was what Neelix shoulda been and it's hilarious.
Actually, I wish they'd made his girlfriend a little less, ah, childish.
Hot take: i never understood the whole controversy around him dating an alien with a very short lifespan.
She isnt a child in their society, just a (young) woman. Had she remained with the okampa she would likely have had romantic partners around that same time in her life, possibly children as well. For that matter, as far as I know neelix isn't interested in her for her age in any way either, so I have a hard time seeing how it is considered creepy or inappropriate. Also, the actress was a normal adult woman, so that wasn't weird either (I cringe more at the scenes of O'Brien and teen aged Keiko in that one TNG episode, at least they didnt kiss I guess).
I found him more annoying for his petty jealousy and overused mister vulcan interactions (although I generally enjoyed their dynamic).
agreed. OH NOE SHE'S TWOOOO she's not a fuckign human so that makes her a grown woman who's expected to have kids at this point. Gentle and thinking the best of people =/= naive and childish.
She was the human equivalent of 18 years old, and Neelix was middle-aged. Sure she was technically an adult but just barely. She'd lived a very sheltered life, whereas he'd had so much life experience. Plus he was a weird mix of romantic and paternalistic toward her, with inappropriate jealousy followed by love bombing. I'm glad they got rid of that storyline because it really didn't work IMO.
She was the equivalent of 18 for about a month or so? in her life cycle. She was probably older (and more mature) than neelix by the point she broke up with him.
I have never seen Avenue 5, but as an old Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I suddenly saw a foul-mouthed English bad boy Neelix in my head and it was hilarious 😂
Weirdly? A5 spike is a lot filthier and hornier.
"Hey, a hole's a hole"
He does the audio books for the Dresden Files. I love it
Spike is awesome. I need them to make a lot more Avenue 5. I'm holding out hope that it'll get the Red Dwarf treatment.
I found most of Voyager to be too cringy to watch.
It was just such a weird vibe, like they targeted it for kids who liked trek, and ultra-horny neckbeards at the exact same time.
The hormones didn’t come in until seven of nine in the way late seasons. And she’s no different than Troi, except more useful on the ship.
Are you forgetting the leotard stretching scene…? Or almost anything Troi wore in the early seasons?
No, that was bad too.
I mean, s1 and s2 was very cringy too, but they had episodes that were very well written by people other than Roddenberry, and we all tend to blank out trauma in our past.
Voyager? This wasn't the first trek show in decades, we weren't dying for want of decent scifi, we had tng, ds9, b5, farscape was coming online, stargate too, and before Voy finished we had The Phantom Menace and the Matrix.
The mid-late 90s were a golden age for media, our standards had increased dramatically particularly for writing.
For TNG I'd say 50% of episodes are either forgettable or near-unwatchable, with a bias towards the early seasons, S3 and S4 are just gold though.
Voyager, I have a few episodes I like (, but many more I can't watch, the writing is just so uneven.
Btw, I have a warm spot in my heart for Enterprise, I think it got a majorly unfair rap, but the first 2 seasons are similar in their unevenness, though Season 4 is again, just gold.
we had The Phantom Menace
Hey, I thought we were talking about decent examples of sci fi
TNG ... 50%
I'd put it more like 25%. That being said, I def consult episode guides when I'm rewatching and skip accordingly.
Hey, I thought we were talking about decent examples of sci fi
Yeah, they kind of screwed the pooch when they brought that up. Sort of negates the rest of their argument.
Did you see it in theaters when it came out?
I think we're spoiled with all the cgi enabled scifi now, it didn't hold as well as the ot (and the st is rancid garbage) but the prequels were epochal at the time, mass market, high budget scifi, alongside indepdence day they changed everything.
I did. And the CG is not my problem with that movie. The plot and the characters and the dialogue are my problem with that movie. If a movie is good but the effects aren't, I'm fine with it. I don't generally watch movies just because they look cool.
Compare the writing of the PT with the writing of most generic scifi in the 90s, it's not worse.
We didn't have the well-written scifi till the 2000s really, in the middle we had stuff like the matrix sequels. We had some Phillip K. Dick in the 80s and 90s too.
You're comparing everything to the OT, yeah that was an epic classic, but also unprecedented (literally invented the blockbuster scifi genre), and there wasn't really anything close to their level afterwards, which is why TPM was such a huge event in 99.
Absolute nonsense. I can name tons of better-written science fiction films from the 1990s:
Dark City, The Matrix, Contact, Starship Troopers, Galaxy Quest, 12 Monkeys, Gattaca, Tremors, The Iron Giant, Cube, both Star Trek VI and Star Trek: First Contact. I can list more.
And the writing in the original trilogy isn't exactly amazing either.
Contact, Starship Troopers,
written in the 1960s IIRC.
Gattaca
Seems partly inspired by Brave New World in the era of genetic sequencing.
Those were incredible Treks though (TUC is my favorite by far). Still, Trek wasn't really mainstream at this point, definitely not a blockbuster, even though First Contact probably broke the threshold.
I honestly haven't seen Dark City yet, never got around to it. The Matrix was part of the change and came out the same year, my point was we'd had a major drought till then. I'm arguing we went from a time of dearth to a time of plenty, and then walked face first into the MCU which recently imploded.