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So fun fact
The reason why it was the deadliest shooting is because the shitstain was using a bump stock, which makes semiautomatics into pseudo-automatics, so he just mag dumped into a crowd
After it happened, the Trump admin of all fucking people banned bump stocks. Broken clock or something.
Now SCOTUS is about to hear a court case to repeal the ban, and they look poised to legalize bump stocks again under the BS reason that "they're not technically automatic weapons"
With the added bonus that now everyone knows about them
Not trying to minimize the bump stock thing but I would wager that having 23 different guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo is why so many people got shot that night. This guy had it all planned out including bipods, red dots, cameras etc. this guy even went as far as to nailing his door shut so in any case someone got to his hotel before he was done, he would have extra time.
Yeah the bump stocks made a difference but I don't think it was by that much.
For those of us who don't wank ourselves to sleep every night to pictures of guns and have no idea what the fuck a bump stock is -
Essentially, bump stocks assist rapid fire by "bumping" the trigger against one's finger (as opposed to one's finger pulling on the trigger), thus allowing the firearm's recoil, plus constant forward pressure by the non-shooting arm, to actuate the trigger
For those of us who don't wank ourselves to sleep every night to pictures of guns and have no idea what the fuck a bump stock is
Interesting observation, I'd have thought anyone old enough at the time to follow news of the deadliest mass shooting in history would have known, especially since bump stocks became the largest discussion point of gun violence debate at the time, before Glock switches.
Since you don't
watch news about gun violencewank yourself to sleep watching gun videos every night, here's what that is:A Glock switch or Glock auto-sear (sometimes called a button or a giggle switch) is a small device that can be attached to the rear of the slide of a Glock handgun, converting the semi-automatic pistol into a machine pistol capable of fully automatic fire.
largest discussion point
Ha ha you seem to misunderstand that most other countrys' entire discussion of the matter was "Fucksake the backwards yanks are at it again, must be a day with a 'Y' in it" 🙄
Have you tried....not shooting people?
If two people get shot in London or Paris, it's massive news, and laws get changed.
If ten people get shot in the US, we kinda just shake our heads, and yous do fuck all
No argument on that point, we're pretty docile through years of bread and circus, and complacency conditioning propaganda¹. George Floyd protests could have been the outrage and protesting in Paris over a cheese manufactured getting wrongly fined by the government, but here it took mandatory lockdowns with everyone out of work and ruin-of-civilization pandemic fears.
I get it. Wish I could personally change it, but the most I can do is vote, and call and email my representatives. If everyone did that every issue, we'd have a different country. Unfortunately see point ¹
I own a gun, a revolver, it was my uncle's service weapon. I've taken it to the range a few times but besides that it sits locked in the safe unloaded and safety on, and I don't carry it around. I can't see myself ever needing to actually use it, but it's nice to know it's there in case there were ever truly a threat to my family. In places like the UK, I assume people have home defense weapons in the form of knives, billy clubs, pepper spray, etc. I've seen the damage it can do at the range, and it's scary. I'm scared of it. I don't ever want to become not scared of it.
In places like the UK, I assume people have home defense weapons in the form of knives, billy clubs, pepper spray, etc
Jesus fucking Christ 😂
NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T HAVE HOME DEFENCE WEAPONS YOU FUCKING BARBARIAN 😅
No?
You've never known someone that has had their house broken into?
Do you live in privileged suburbs or is the UK just a magical place with no home invasions?
Or is it just a matter of not caring if someone does?
You don't get it... Why we should be afraid of someone breaking our house?
Thiefs don’t carry weapons. If they were arrested with deadly weapons (including knife), that would add decade of prison time for them. It’s being like that since centuries...
Also: they breaks home when we are not home.
So weapons are useless. You are not more safe with them. It’s just a way to escalate a dangerous situation to a deadly situation.
No?
No! 😂 I knew a dealer once that kept a 32mm spanner in case someone tried to steal his dope, but that was in a rough area
Christ on a bike, imagine thinking that's normal!
Yeah that's fair, the guy was armed to the teeth. The bump stock is just the icing on the shit cake.
Can someone who's more into gun stuff tell me why people are always talking about the number of guns someone has?
What makes 23 different guns better than one good one? I can see the point of having like two, in case the first jams, but based on my (limited) experience I would much rather have a single HK416 than a dozen of anything else.
Also with fewer guns you need fewer ammo types (unless you for some reason have 23 guns with the same ammo, which to me makes even less sense).
Can someone who’s more into gun stuff tell me why people are always talking about the number of guns someone has?
Can be one of several things, or usually a combination:
- to show how prepared they were
- to imply the person was crazy because they had that many guns
- to imply people having that many guns somehow itself makes them more dangerous
A lot of it is just rhetoric
But it also does raise the question: why did the shooter think he needed a lot of guns?
That is true, maybe he thought he was going to have a multiday standoff, but I don't know why he'd need so many guns for that.
He brought all those guns to the hotel room he shot from. I imagine it was so he could shoot as many rounds as possible at the crowd with out the need to reload.
But that really makes no sense. Unless you have them all set up in a row pointed exactly where you want, you're probably not even saving half a second vs reloading. The old "switching is faster than reloading" thing doesn't apply nearly as much when you're at a static position and can have all your mags out in the open at arm's reach.
He was operating a significant number of his weapons on bump stocks. Bump stocks allow firing at a much higher rate than the weapons were designed for. Operating at a higher rate causes the weapons to overheat. Overheating causes misfires and jams (and inaccuracy and can permanently damage weapons, but I doubt he was particularly concerned about those things). He did have them all set up in a row and many on mounts. He broke out the overlooking windows of his hotel room before he started shooting. It seems he was shooting with one until it jammed and then moving on to the next rather than trying to clear misfires.
If that is the case, that he was using a gun until it jammed, it makes more sense to me. At the same time, how often does an ordinary gun jam? I've used an HK416 and an MG3 during a year of army service (conscription training) and to my memory you could fire many hundred rounds (thousands in the case of the MG3) without a single jam, and a misfire takes about a second (max) to clear.
Also, I've seen people talking about the number of guns someone has also in other settings, as a kind of metric that people who are into guns seem to care about, I guess I'm more wondering about the phenomenon in general than just this specific case.
I have no idea on a metric of how frequently an "ordinary" gun jams, much less these modified ones, but I can apply some logic from my knowledge/experiences. The weapons you mention having experience with are designed with appropriate tolerances to not bind up under heavy use, so are a bit different from the 'consumer-grade' type we're talking about in this specific event.
The type of semiautomatic rifles we're talking about here use recoil to cycle the action. A bump stock allows the whole weapon to oscillate - and can have an effect similar to not securely shouldering the weapon. This prevents the needed energy from being transferred into the action for complete cycling, and that would make the weapon prone to jamming.
I don't know if I have much of value to add to or reply to your second paragraph, but yeah that fixation is weird.
I have no idea about the differences in tolerances and reliability between "army grade" and "consumer grade" weapons, but I know that the MG3 is renowned for being extremely reliable in military context.
I've never even thought about trying a bump stock, but the idea that some of the energy that "should" be going into properly chambering the round instead goes to simulating automating fire, and that it therefore increases the risk of a misfeed or jam makes a lot of sense.
Except they can jam up - otherwise as you said it would be better to reload one than to switch?
The guy just had a lot of guns. He had 23 with him and he had like another 20 at home.
But I would also imagine that him having them all loaded put into a row each mounted on its own bipod in his suite is faster than reloading.
A lot of people this thing about reloading, but honestly, my reload time after a couple weeks of basic training was under the five seconds you need to pass, and after a couple months of service plenty of people were closer to three seconds. I have a hard time imagining that swapping weapons is quicker. I guess the reloading thing might be the reason to have many guns, but it strikes me as a strange one.
And really, I'm not only talking about this specific case, I get the feeling that people that are into guns will often focus on the number of guns someone has, also outside this case, which seems a bit of a strange metric to be talking about in general.
Because it grabs attention and sounds scary, which really what media outlets care about. My other favorite is when they talk about someone having being caught with "hundreds of rounds of ammunition", which clearly indicates that's how many people they were planning on murdering, and isn't just a pretty typical range day, or in the case of reallly common stuff like 9mm, 22LR, or even 223, can literally be a single box of ammo.
One life is that much, though.
A SCOTUS that Trump installed.
No hardware required, also not some new technique suddenly discovered:
How to Bump Fire an AR-15/M4
AK47 bump fireThe reason why it was the deadliest shooting is because the shitstain was using a bump stock
No, he was looking over a massive crowd of people with a rifle. He may have killed more people without a bump stock, given the difficulty it causes for accuracy. Saying it is a settled fact that it led to the deaths is just not true.
I mean, he didn't really have much of a problem with accuracy - he fired a total of 1058 rounds, and those rounds or shrapnel from them injured 413 different people. Of course, many people received more than a single gunshot wound. He killed 58 (later 60) in ten minutes of shooting -- effectively one person every 10 seconds. I think it would be difficult for a single person to injure or kill more from where he was standing with any weapon short of an RPG.
kill more from where he was standing with any weapon short of an RPG.
I think short of somehow knocking down a build that would make it more difficult because of the very slow reload speed.
kill more from where he was standing with any weapon short of an RPG.
And a semi-auto rifle can fire much faster than that without a bumpstock
He didn't exactly need accuracy when there was a sea of targets in front of him, especially if his objective was to hit as many of them as possible before they could disperse.
But he continued to hit people while they were dispersing