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Good thing we didn’t elect GENORCIDE JOE.
But Biden wouldn’t give me everything exactly the way I wanted! Guess I’ll just throw my vote away so Trump can win 🙄
I hope you never experience what Palestinians experienced, but if you do you might understand why some people couldn't stomach voting for him. The trolley problem is a lot different when your family is tied to the tracks.
You lack empathy and you forgive genocide, you're not far from the Republicans you probably feel superior to.
We understand exactly why people didn’t want to vote for Joe and Kamala. That doesn’t change the fact that Trump is actively allowing Israel to kill all Palestinians and displace them permanently.
If you are defending not voting Kamala you are supporting Trump. It really is that simple. You are the leopard getting your face eaten and the pikachu face meme. My heart goes out to the people of Palestine.
I'm not going to treat people that couldn't stomach genocide as my enemy. There are real enemies to worry about. You all keep punching left and waiting for a chance to vote.
I'm going to continue voting for the lesser of true evils because choosing to not participate is provably worse.
I agree we need to fix the system, and people are working to do that. When the choice is between someone who doesn't support you, and someone who actively, vocally supports your eradication, you have to be a particular kind of stupid to think sitting on the sidelines is going to help. This is why languages have metaphors and similes against doing what so many people did, like "burying your head in the sand," and "sitting on the sidelines," and probably the most ironic of all given to origin, "all that it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
Which is exactly what they did. And now their people are suffering for it, asks women are suffering for it, and minorities, and civil rights... but hey, at least they made a bunch of other people suffer, too, huh?
They couldn't stomach genocide so they voted (or didn't vote at all) for MORE genocide, along with a host of other democracy-destroying actions and human rights atrocities across the world. Yeah, I'll treat them as enemies, they chose this.
milquetoast moderate centrists unite!
hasta la status quo siempre!
we will defeat the evil left and the fascists.
we will vote against them on the beaches, we shall vote against them on the landing grounds
Their "family" is tied to the tracks before it splits off and kills many other people as well on the Trump path, so good job for them choosing more deaths over less deaths.
yes cold hard utilitarian calculations are how people react in these situations, you're absolutely right. Everyone should be as cold and calloused as you would be watching your loved ones die. That's normal human behaviour.
These people are your enemy, not the ones doing the genocide.
And the people who will be watching their LGBTQ, immigrant, etc. loved ones die? Pretty cold and calloused of you to not give a fuck about them.
Yeah leftists don't care about that.
fuck off you insincere rabid straw man hunting liberal
go pick fights with other leftists on every issue while your society crumbles around you
maybe if you train really really hard for 4 years your next vote will REALLY show em
Everything exactly the way I wanted? People are upset about funding genocide Holmes, what the fuck are you talking about?
Edit: I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, everyone is supposed to just be cool with genocide and deserve derision and mockery if they aren't? What the fuck happened to empathy?
I’ll always be amazed that in a discussion about how stupid something is, people do the same stupid thing.
I'll always be amazed at the neo liberal tendency to believe you can be as atrocious as you want because you're the "good guys". It's the voters fault they didn't vote for your candidate after all, the Harris and the Biden campaigns were both run perfectly. The Democrats were entitled to the presidency, but the population is just too stupid.
You must understand that Democrat voters are insanely racist and do not see Palestinians as human. They saw it as a side-issue because it does not affect them. This is showcased by their current disregard of the Democrats complicity in the genocide.
They do not care one single bit about brown people being slaughtered in droves by Joe Biden. They are now in glee those brown people were slaughtered.
Yeah, now we just get continued and worsened genocide in Gaza and an even faster decline into fascism in the United States! This was definitely worth it to stick it to the Dems!
And before you call me a lib, I'm not. I just have 2 brain cells to rub together and understood that voting 3rd party is sadly a complete and utter waste of time in our system. I also understood that letting Trump get elected was going to make things far, far worse like it already has.
Dems were far from perfect and aren't much better than the Republicans, but they are still better. I would love it if the socialist party or at least one leftist party could get elected, but I live under this fucked up system and until it's gone, we're stuck with 2 parties. At least until Trump or Elon bans Democrats from existing. Neither party will change that, but one of them is definitively better than the other
Just one more Democrat win bro and they'll stop the sliding into fascism, just one more win. Look at us we have Bush on our side now, you hated him before but we just had to beat him once and now he's on our side look. We have Cheney now, you hated Cheney but look we're best pals. Just let us beat Trump and we'll make it better. Oh look Trump is on our side now against mega-hitler, let's beat mega-hitler this time and all your troubles will be over. Just one more Democratic win why won't you trust us.
All the while actively fighting the progressives in their own party. Trump didn't win, Democrats lost, hard. Take ownership. Learn. Do better.
Look how casually this person talks about genocide. Refusing to participate in the modern day Holocaust started by the Democrats is "sticking it to the dems". Absolutely zero care for the massacared non white women and children.
At least be honest and say you do not care about brown people and think Trump will personally affect you worse.
Damn, now I'm just "this person"? I care immensely about the Palestinian people dying, thanks very much. I'm just being realistic about our options. In what possible way was sitting this out and letting Trump take over better for literally anybody in the world at all? Forget skin color, Trump and Elon taking over is bad for everybody expect the uber wealthy.
Just rolling over and letting a man who admitted he'd be a dictator on day one as well as saying he'd rather destroy Gaza than find a peaceful solution was definitely worth it to stick it to the Dems!
By calling you "this person" they showed more empathy than you still can't seem to muster up for Palestinians.
People opposing the Holocaust just wanted to stick it to Hitler I guess.
Unlike the Dems who were... Destroyed Gaza.
This video is about you. Watch it if you want to understand your own extreme racism. https://youtu.be/EEHmonK817w?t=7s
That’s great but please explain how Trumo being in office is going to help.
Do you care about Ukraine?
How is Trump in office relevant to Genocide Joe? Did Genocide Joe not do genocide because Trump is in office now?
So far Trump is doing a bang on job of uniting the entire world including Europe against Israel.
As for Ukraine sure. But Ukraine had already been abandoned by Biden. If America wanted Ukraine to win they would have sent them the weapons they needed at the beginning of the war. Not after 3 years.
I've been trying to explain this to people for about a year.
Support of Israel is non-negotiable in US politics. 95% of the political establishment supports whatever they want to do. So, it's not at all about Biden. Want to say Genocide US, sure, that makes sense. Pinning it on Biden just managed to slam him in an election year. The main point is that sure, after criticizing them, we didn't get Kamala or Biden, who had bad Palestine policies, but instead got someone worse who is also worse on basically every issue. Environment, labor, and financial regulation, human rights abroad, LGBT rights, policing, everything.
Ukraine had not been abandoned by Biden? They sent them something like $120 billion in arms right before Trump took office. What's Trump going to send? Nothing, most likely. I'm not sure what you're getting at there. The US has obviously given lots of support to Ukraine. Democrats have been all for it; Republicans have kicked up a fuss and said a bunch of bullshit about it, and now they're in charge.
It sure is strange to beliefs shoved into the mouths of millions of people like that. “Insanely racist” and “don’t see Palestine’s as human” is just about the stupidest and most ridiculous thing you could say about, of all voting demographics, the left in the US. Inane insulting nonsense like this is why people on lemmy don’t take the rest of your opinions seriously.
No, you're not supposed to be cool with funding genocide. The problem is that BOTH SIDES support the genocide, so you have to look at what other things differentiate them, like one side also wanting to kill LGBTQ people and immigrants, for example. The best option is damage mitigation, not sitting back and letting the greater evil win.
Yes, I don't disagree. That's what i did.
Framing anyone unhappy with genocide as a purity testing lefty who didn't get everything they wanted so they pouted and sat out the election is wildly blasé, however, and its gross that that's a popular sentiment here.
It's reasonable, because most people whining about supporting Israel's genocide don't acknowledge that it's a policy of the US government that anybody who could ever win an election would also support. It's unconscionable, it's horrible, it's a crime against humanity, but it's also not a factor in choosing who to vote for to cause the least harm in a shitty first past the post system.
Sorry but if you live in the US, then for 200+ years there have been two candidates each election with a chance of winning. If you wanted to cut off your nose to spite your face by not voting for Biden, which objectively only helped Trump, then congrats, you made everything worse for everyone. And that includes the Israel-Palestine conflict.
A thousand small cuts are how you ended up with fascism. If you liberals joined the left in pushing back against the right-wing slide of the Democratic party in election after election after election after election then FUCKING GENOCIDE wouldn't have been the breaking point you dumb complacent losers.
Lol it’s the other way around. The “thousand small cuts” leading to Trump winning is that conservatives will consistently vote for a candidate as long as they support a single issue they care about (such as abortion). And liberals will consistently not vote for a candidate if they don’t support an issue they care about (such as Palestine).
People like you being ok with fracturing the left because of ideological puritanism versus the right being willing to coalesce around a despot who throws them a few bones is why Trump won.
sure man your way is working no problem keep at it bud just vote harder next time.
it's all upvotes and ballots, that's all you gotta do man. we didn't vote hard enough, our bad.
sure man your way is working no problem
Lol my way is to vote for the best of two candidates which does work and has objectively led to progress, if slowly. Just over 100 years ago we had legalized segregation and women couldn’t vote. 200 years ago we had literal slavery.
By comparison your suggestion is to not vote if you don’t get your perfect candidate. Do you want to point to a single example in the 200 year history of the US, or any country for matter, where that worked?
lol this liberal identifies more with MLK, Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers than he does with the people who were making these same tired arguments in the face of their political action and demands.
You're not like them, voting isn't what won those rights.
You're not like them, voting isn't what won those rights.
Lol this is such a comical statement it’s clear I’m talking to someone who can’t be reasoned with.
But you know what, keep doing what you do, don’t vote. I’ll be comfortable knowing you have literally no influence on anything because you’re too dumb to use the means provided to you to make a change.
Genuine change comes from grassroots organization and pressure, not beginning and ending your influence by voting. And yes, I voted for Harris. This is still entirely on the Democrats for failing to represent and advocate for what the majority of their constituents wanted at the cost of a incredibly important election
“Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue,” King wrote. “It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored.”
- MLK Jr. on the nature of nonviolent protests
First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom
- MLK Jr
I voted for Harris.
Waahhh you're being mean just because a bunch of lefties fucked up bigly!
True. Instead of repeating the state propaganda verbatim, NYT now needs to do crazy word plays on Trumps honesty to sell the genocide to their audience.
They're both exactly the same, right?
Right!?!
Yep, other than a dozen critically important issues, exactly the same! And of course Trump is as bad or worse on Palestine. Great move for these self-proclaimed communists to help get a true fascist elected.
Trump could execute the last living Palestine on live tv and these idiots would still claim they made the right choice.
They don't actually give a fuck about Palestinians, it's virtue signaling in its purest form.
The fact that the Democratic Party threw the election was absolutely not a good thing. In order to win an election, a campaign needs to offer concessions to voters to earn as many votes as possible. Something the Democratic Party's Campaign decisively chose not to do, and in fact do the opposite.
The total uncommitted in the Primary was 706,591 (Which may have been undercounted) which is absolutely massive for a primary. On average, general turnout is twice that of primary turnout. The Democratic Party knew that at they were risking at least 1.4 million votes by ignoring the issue. They also knew throughout the whole campaign that a vast majority of their constituents wanted weapons embargo and permanent ceasefire (required by domestic and international law), plus a majority of independents and Republicans. There was no valid reason for the Democratic Party to ignore the demands of that many voters, especially if trying to win an election
Instead, they chose to arrest thousands of student protestors, gave billions of dollars to a genocide at the tax payers expense consistently for 15 months, actively suppressed the voices and representation of the main victims of the genocide, and campaigned with Liz Cheney (who was actively involved with the Bush-Cheney foreign policy in the middle east and enthusiastically pro ethnic cleansing of Palestinians). They chose to do all that instead of represent the view of the majority of their constituents and abide by domestic/international law.
And that was just one of the major issues, along with immigration and the economy, that tanked the approval of the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party wanted to actually win against Trump they would have done everything to gain as many votes as possible. They chose not to. They threw the election and let an unpopular fascist win.
Polls on policy
Democrats' Working-Class Failures, Analysis Finds, Are 'Why Trump Beat Harris'
2024 Post-Election Report: A retrospective and longitudinal data analysis on why Trump beat Harris
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz's Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
concessions to voters
You mean lies. You wanted them to lie more.
And I agree. The Republicans do it so the Democrats need to as well. It's just harder to lie to thinking folks.
I mean. I want them to hang the 1% throw their children to the wolves spread the bounty of earth to everyone dig canals and run public transit ferries with compensated live artists and open bars that I can use to travel to museums, libraries, and orgies.
But barring that yea maybe like dress your fucking corporate genocide agenda up a little better.
I want them to have actual actions, both in popular policies and effective politics. But yes, they couldn't even be bothered to lie about enacting progressive policies that would improve the material needs of the working class. Such as codifying abortion rights, expanding Medicare to universal healthcare, implementating public housing and expanding renter's rights/protections, cracking down on corporations on not only price gouging but also trust busting, implementating expansive public infrastructure projects. Under the policy spoiler you can find a whole bunch of policies that are overwhelmingly popular with every American and would improve people's livelyhood. It would be the best way to fracture the Republican base of support, but it would require going after the bottom line of corporations.
That would have been impossible as he wasn't even running.
This is true. That didn't stop the "genorcide joe" people from acting as if he was though, by connecting Harris to him.