As a bike rider, I forget this is a thing. Asked my neighbor, he pays $350/month in insurance alone đ
As a bike rider, I forget this is a thing. Asked my neighbor, he pays $350/month in insurance alone đ
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What commonly goes unsaid in these conversations of insurance cost is the immediate disputes that occur with the provider.
Why am I paying tens of thousands a year to engage in an argument when making a claim?
I was once rear ended at a red light. I was knocked unconscious and the driver drove off. A few kind witnesses called police who took a report. They got half his plate imprinted on my bumper, but never tracked him down. I had State Farm, and I was even paying extra for the "uninsured driver coverage". They said they couldn't cover it because until they had another driver's information I was automatically at fault, even with the police report and witness accounts. They said it didn't count as uninsured driver because it's possible the guy had insurance. I was flabbergasted.
In the end I had a concussion and needed to take time off work for recovery and my short term disability insurance ended up suing State Farm because they didn't want to pay for my medical treatment. State Farm agreed to cover medical care but only if it was recorded as my fault and I paid my deductible. In anger I tried to switch insurance companies but found out they have a shared database and since it was recorded as a hit and run my fault, nobody else would take me. And State Farm jacked my rate up 30%...
I realised in a similar, though less detrimental, encounter that true insurance comes in the form of dash cameras. For the equivalent of an insurance payment or two, a high fidelity video of the entire vehicle surroundings can be had.
Honestly though, with a few witnesses and half a plate, it's a surprise they couldn't find the car that drove into you. Decerning the colour, and style of car, surely it'd be only a handful of vehicles matching both the description and the numbers.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
That would require a cop to do more than the bate minimum, so its just not gonna happen.
Do you have any recommendations for dash camera solutions like you mention? I've been telling myself I need to get a dash cam but every time I start researching what to buy I feel like the market is a sea of wanky information and it's hard to tell what is crap and what is solid.
I have Viofo 129 Pros. Looks like they now have a 229 Pro in various bundles.
At the time, I looked into various brands and models and was consistently finding so many models were the same device with a different brand on them. That was a huge turn off because it means no firmware updates, support, or a real company behind the product.
Here's what I was looking for and think is good to be mindful of:
No large display screen
I didn't want something with a huge display screen, because I don't want my view to be obstructed by stuff on the windscreen.
No built in secondary camera
A secondary, driver facing camera built in. To achieve a second camera, in my opinion, the main exterior facing camera quality must be compromised to maintain overall price parity with single camera competitors.
Also, on the topic of insurance, there's absolutely nothing an insurance company would see on the driver facing video that would be to your benefit. They'll claim you didn't look down at the speedometer once the entire drive before your accident and therefore they believe you to have been speeding. This also applies to law enforcement in my opinion. Everything you say / provide can and will be used against you.
Additive secondary camera
A number of models, Viofo included, have a input port on them to allow a second camera to be used to combine footage. Think of any video you've seen where the front facing footage has a smaller rear facing video in the corner. These aren't bad, but I noticed that most of the rear facing cameras are lower resolution than the main camera. To me, this doesn't make a lot of sense as there's the same likelihood of an incident behind me as in front of me. This might not be an issue anymore, given its been five or so years since I bought mine, the new models might be 4k 60fps all the way around.
A minor detail is also that with additive cameras, a portion of the front view is obstructed in the recording by the rear view. Maybe this is circumventable, and they save as multiple files independently, I don't know. The resolution thing bothered me more.
Personally, I don't have rear specific cameras. All of mine are the 129 Pro model, each set to the same video settings. I'm kind of particular and wanted full 360° coverage, so each of our vehicles have four cameras, front, rear, and both sides. Obviously not exactly economical to start out, but one of the side cameras already paid for the entire camera set up in a sense as it captured someone breaking into a neighbour's house and lead to arrests and prosecution. I call that a win.
Tactile buttons only
Capacitive buttons are garbage and should be outlawed in vehicles as you can't feel for them. More specifically though, a dedicated toggle button for microphone recording. I like to have mine on in the event I need to read a license plate, or I am in an accident significant enough where recording a final message to family would be important.
That said, I do regularly turn the mic off when there are private conversations taking place, and this is important enough to me I feel it's worth mentioning.
Night performance
The hard truth is that night vision is these cameras is never going to be great as the sensors are pretty small and they tend to adjust to your headlights anyway, but the Viofo cameras I've had have all been able to read a plate when illuminated. I wouldn't count on it though, also read aloud the plate so the mic picks it up.
Parking modes
Most cameras have some for of parking mode, where they activate when it senses the vehicle get bumped. They do this with a g force sensor.
Not all, but some cameras, including Viofo, also have motion sensing abilities, so they will record a set length (5 or 10 minutes) after they see something move. These tend to have sensitivity options which is great if you live in a windy area with trees, because then it'll basically be on all night.
There's also just a time lapse option for when the vehicle is off, and the camera will just take a low frame rate video - as in 10 frames per minute - and kick up the frame rate if it sees something or experiences movement. In my mind this is the best of both worlds, so this is what mine are set to.
GPS
Some reviews I came across way back when were finding some cameras had GPS data displayed on the video with no option to turn it off. This data included the current speed of the vehicle. This circles back to giving the insurer or authority data that can incriminate you. You were going 55 in a 50 and so it's your fault an inebriated driver went through a red light and slammed into you. No thanks.
That said, I do have the GPS coordinates displayed on mine. In the event the vehicle is stolen and found ditched somewhere, there's a slim possibility the coordinates could come in handy. Unlike the speed display, the insurer would have to calculate travel speed based off changing coordinates which would be changing at a non standard rate. I find this an acceptable hurdle that an insurer would not traverse.
Capacitor, no battery
No nuance here, batteries tend to swell in the heat experienced by vehicles in the summer sun. Instead, having a capacitor solves this issue.
Memory card
Get the fastest and highest capacity SD card the camera you get will accept. No sense spending money on a good camera if the card fails you. This is a guide to understanding various SD card related terms. It has a good comparison table partway down.
Adhesive mounting, no suction cups
I prefer a bracket with adhesive that the camera clips into instead of a suction cup. I've had suction cups let go in both heat and cold. It's difficult to achieve the same angle once it's fallen off. Also, this happening while driving can be startling.
Versatility
Bit of a unique situation to my use case, but I often remove a couple cameras to attach to my bike when going on a ride with a lot of road riding, or sometimes with my family. I have mounts on my bikes I just clip them into and I slip a USB power pack in a pouch with a cable running to the cameras. Basically this let's me not have dedicated bike cameras.
Insurance on your insurance
As I mentioned before, the camera can be considered your insurance policy. Something I recommend to anyone that asks about dash cameras is to consider guarding your possession of the camera a tertiary insurance policy.
If you are ever involved in an accident, don't say a thing to anyone about the video evidence. Best case scenario, it throws a would be liar a curveball and they admit whatever fault is theirs. In my opinion, it's not worth bringing up because of the risk that someone is desperate enough, they might try to commandeer the camera from your vehicle. This also helps trap someone in a lie should they go that route.
Final paranoia
I addition to your primary insurance (policy), your secondary insurance (the camera), and your tertiary insurance (not volunteering the footage), I also practice a fourth level of insanity - I mean insurance - whereby I keep extra SD cards in the vehicle so following an accident, I can quickly replace the cards with the accident footage on them with empty cards to record the aftermath.
This way if anyone sees the camera in the windscreen and removes the card or even the entire camera, I'm still covered. These extra cards aren't huge capacity, maybe enough for an hour of footage.
I didn't realise I had quite so much to say on this topic. Hopefully the insane parts were outweighed by the useful parts haha.
Commenting here so i can check replies, as i also need recommendations.
State Farm also screwed over a guy I know. He dumped their policy after they wouldn't pay anything on his accident (much less dramatic than yours) where they had some kind of parking related crash with 2 of their cars at home. State Farm told him that he could not be covered for an accident with another car on his policy because he "can't sue himself" so it sounds like they are only paying out when they have someone to sue about it.
You are not kidding!
I got a motorcycle and paid for insurance. When someone stole my bike and police caught the guy and put it in the impound, my scummy ass insurance called me to go see if it's okay? Like bro, that's your job.
Then they said if I was willing to sign a contract that the bike was fine without allowing me to see it. I said no.
Finally they gave up and wrote me a check for the cost of the bike.
Goes to show how strange modern life is that it was easier for them to cut a cheque than send someone down there. Happens all the time unfortunately. I wonder if someone at the impound lot rode it home.
Not a motorcycle, but my car was hit (along with several others) by a guy evading the police. I wasn't even in it, we were in a city and cars were parked along the street, and he came over a hill, ran a red light, t-boned someone, and then bounced against a bunch of cars down the street.
When I got the police report, I filed a claim with my insurance, which was the same insurance company as the criminal. They originally told me that, "There were 7 vehicles involved in this accident, and other vehicles were damaged much worse than yours, so we're not sure if his policy will cover all of the damage... So we'll have to file the claim under your policy, you'd just have to pay your deductible."
Absolutely not, I told her. "Well Sir, you have to unders-"
"No, ma'am, YOU need to understand that your customer's inability to be a responsible citizen is NOT my problem, and I am NOT having my premiums go up, or paying my deductible, when I did absolutely nothing wrong." After escalating to a manager and giving her an earful while threatening to drop my policy with them effective immediately, they miraculously realized his policy would cover the damage to my car. Easy day, right?
Now, I'll be honest: The damage to my car was completely cosmetic, but I was poor and could have really used some extra cash, hence why I was pursuing it. Well, brought the car in to be looked over by the insurance folks, and the assessed damage was like $800. Cool, I asked her for my check so I could go home.
"Oh, well, Sir, you still have a lien on the vehicle, and normally we would send it to your bank, and they would tell you where to go and then pay the repair shop."
Oh, cool, well, that's not what we're doing, I already have a shop lined up, I said, but needed the money for the parts.
Big tall dude comes over, also an insurance employee, as the woman and I are going back and forth, and he chimes in and goes, "Well, Sir, y'know, typically the bank holding the lien wants to handle these things, and, y'know, if the repairs aren't made and they repossess the vehicle, you could owe the repair costs."
My response: "Huh, fascinating. Sounds like a conversation between my bank and I, and with all due respect, I don't understand who you are to have that discussion on their behalf."
"Just cut him the check," as he walks away.
I fucking hate insurance companies.
I had a shitty white Kia Rio that I wrote off in a snowstorm. I borrowed my dad's car to drive while I looked for a replacement I could afford, and after a few weeks my insurance said 'we paid you the coverage. If you don't put a new car on your policy, we'll cancel it.' ok, fine. I put my old junker (car before the Rio) on it - wasn't even road worthy, but I had accident forgiveness on this policy and if I had to start over I'd get higher premiums.
I found a car a week later. Called the broker to switch the policy.
'we can't remove this car from the policy unless we contact your bank first '
What.
They claimed because I had bought my Rio with a bank loan that they couldn't remove my junker without permission from the bank.
I argued with this person politely for 10 minutes, pointing out that I'd paid the car off 2 years prior. They said 'well I'll need to check with the underwriter then.' fine. I get a call back 30m later, same person. 'no, we need permission from the bank according to the underwriter.'
This pissed me off because I knew I was being lied to. "Now I know you're lying to me. I have the cheque from the underwriter cashed in my account. They would not have issued it to me if there was any issue with the bank. I am not a customer of that bank, have not been for 2 years."
'well sir, I need to confirm that with the bank'
"If you contact the bank in reference to me in any way, shape, or form, I will sue you for breach of privacy and file complaints with every government office that I can. DO NOT CALL THE BANK. SWITCH IN THE NEW CAR."
They refused. I called back 2 hours later, got someone else. Told them I needed the new car switched in.
They did it, and a week later I filed a written complaint to the broker about the other rep, firmly underscoring the lying.
No idea if it was related or not, but the branch got downsized away less than a year later.
Anyway, fuck insurance companies.
here's me, a grown ass adult with a car i paid off like 4 years ago - nothing special, a smallish commuter POS that gets 40mpg that i literally use to drive 4 miles to work and back.
i was paying about $630/year because i pay for a year at a time, and it'd be almost double that to pay monthly, like what the actual fuck? anyways, a few months ago i get this email from the insurance company telling me "hey get ready your policy will renew in 3 months, be sure to double check your payment method" so i log into my account and they were gonna raise my premium to $970/yr and there was literally no obvious way to see that they were gonna do that. it was a case of logging in, going through multiple levels of menus to get to the future policy, download a pdf of that policy, then view it offline.
well, i'm pissed, so i call them to find out what the hell they're doing and why and they claimed it's because i had gotten a speeding ticket. of course, they had zero information to share with me about that speeding ticket - no ticket number, no date/time, no address, nothing. i sure as hell don't recall getting a speeding ticket, and in any case, with a spotless driving record, you'd think there'd be some kind of interfacing with me about it, but no. they claimed the ticket was real and i'd need to contact my DMV to find out more.
so i call them, the DMV, and after some hassle, find out they have ZERO record of any speeding ticket. so.... back on the phone with the insurance company and they just wanna give me the shaft and the runaround no exceptions. i mean, i'm pissed now because it's OBVIOUS fraud, right? Anyways, i get absolutely nowhere. so i tell them to cancel my policy and i woulda thought about contacting a lawyer about a possible case or something but, naw....
i still have the car, and it's parked being unused. I swapped to riding bikes to and from work, sometimes an ebike, sometimes a fixie, and i'm the only cyclist on the road around here that I've ever seen and it's sometimes really sketchy. but i plan to ride through the winter, dry or snowy, i don't care.
it can get complicated, because i'm a single father, but honestly, fuck auto insurance, fuck cars, fuck car brain. we gotta make a stand at some point and I lament that we can't really do it collectively.
I'm with you there.
Not too long ago, my company was informed by letter (as you should have been) of a price increase. I can't remember exactly, but I want to say it was a 600% increase on the company's rates. There's never been any claims on the policy, they just decided they could do it to enough of their clients, and probably enough would pay it that it wouldn't matter they'd lose a bunch.
I understand the provide we switched to actually provides greater coverage for less than the original amount we paid the first provider. Unbelievable.
It wasn't specifically for insurance reasons, but I got rid of my car after I noticed I wasn't driving very far. Now we have a couple cargo trailers and we do the shopping and the errands just as easily and we're saving tens of thousands doing it. We go through the winter as well, it's not for everyone but dress appropriately and have lights and you'll do great.
My job is shopping around for third party customer support vendors. One of their pitches I kept hearing was, "We don't lie to you about times."
And then they shared how their competitors were trained on a method of customer service where their goal was to get you to hang up as fast as possible to increase their velocity Metrics. So they would literally lie to you. Thinking it was a joke, I googled and yeah, apparently that was a REAL tactic done for decades.
I've had great luck going through an insurance broker for my insurance. The broker can be a mediator should the insurance company engage in sketchy nonsense, and can get you into some cushy insurance companies than only do B2B and don't spend millions on consumer advertising. Plus brokers will know what insurance companies to go through for what buyers to likely get you the best rate