Jellyfin is not just good... but better than Plex now?!
Jellyfin is not just good... but better than Plex now?!
I've feel like I've used Plex forever. I also feel like every couple years I try Jellyfin to see how it's going. Recently I tried it again because of Plex restriction on more than one user.
Well, I just tried it again and it's substantially improved! This time it actually properly detected most of my library!
Also the Android TV app is AWESOME! No more glitches, lagging, and freezing trying to play my stuff like Plex did. It is butter smooth.
Wow! I'm impressed and I just deleted Plex. Good riddance.
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There's a really strong bias on Lemmy for OSS projects. I'm glad they get so much love here, but everything people say here about Jellyfin has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. It works and you can use it. Depending on your needs, it may even work perfectly for you. There are tons of rough edges though.
Here's a few:
- A bunch of basic functionality most people are used to is missing by default. You can get things like intro detection and subtitle downloading to work with plugins, but you have to work at it.
- Hardware acceleration still kind of sucks. You can get it to work, but the Jellyfin port of ffmpeg doesn't work anywhere near as well as Plex's.
- The variety in app experience is bewildering sometimes. Apps look and feel very different between platforms.
- Android TV app support sucks. The app is difficult to navigate and has a bunch of weird edges, like subtitle defaults not working. I have no idea what OP is talking about here, it sounds like they're only judging the app on its animation speed.
- Public network support is finicky. This is hard to quantify, but I've been on several remote networks where my Jellyfin connection dropped in and out and Plex did not. I suspect this is due to the Plex Relay service making up for bad routes between my house and the network.
Jellyfin is improving all the time, and I hope the recent EFCore update improves performance and development velocity. I'm also holding out hope it will eventually lead to externally hosted databases and active-active servers.
Disclaimer: I run Plex and Jellyfin and regularly check in on the state of things in Jellyfin. I donate to Jellyfin. I want Jellyfin to be better than Plex. I don't think any objective measure bears this out yet.
Since you run both, I have a few questions if you don't mind.
I don't have a plex pass but, so the only feature I want is intro skipping and from what you mention I understand it needs tinkering. Acceptable for me.
My usage is pretty simple if I migrate to Jellyfin do I need to fuck around with my folder structures ? No special case just /movie/title | tv/title in my use-case with the usual arr stack for grabbing.
The client used currently is a desktop client on arch/windows and I don't need hardware transcoding. The server and libraries are on Truenas.
I don't need remote playback for movies/tvs but I have no idea how to replace Plexamp and if you have suggestions, feel free to mention it.
Intro skipping works pretty well once you set it up and give it time to scan. Functionally, it identifies common audio to determine likely intros, so it can get confused with shows that have different intro music between episodes of the same season.
Don't have to change any folder structures unless you were storing optimized media alongside the original files in Plex. All the metadata for both Plex and Jellyfin lives in a SQLite database in your config dir.
You may wind up transcoding even if you think you really shouldn't have to. Browsers are weird about supporting some encodings, and both Plex and Jellyfin will automatically transcode to satisfy the client.
Hardware transcoding is huge, don't underestimate how impactful it can be. A single 4K CPU transcode could saturate my 72-core server, but one A380 can transcode 3-4 4K streams at the same time. This admittedly doesn't matter much if you only have one user, but keep it in mind if you ever have to share. It's so annoying to have a stream start hitching because 1-2 friends decided to start watching something at the same time as you...
I still don't have a good replacement for Plexamp either. I think Jellyfin can play music too, but I haven't tried it myself. I spent a lot of time getting the metadata right in Plex and just haven't felt like trying to find a way to migrate yet.
Intro skipping works pretty well once you set it up and give it time to scan.
Iirc the feature used to be an add-on with module and I read here somewhere it now baked in out of the box, is that the case ?
You may wind up transcoding even if you think you really shouldn't have to
I thought there's an edge case somewhere but from your explanation I don't think I need transcoding for video. Not that I don't want it.
My NAS is old, like, i3 2100 old. So I just make sure the media can be played directly on my 2 client locally, so I don't know how much HW transcode improve the performance but if it's usable, that's a nice bonus. Maybe if I ever get a 4K display but that's a problem for future me.
I spent a lot of time getting the metadata right in Plex
Pretty much yeah, I really don't wanna mess with the music library
Thanks for the answer.
Not OP, but I can answer part of your questions:
if I migrate to Jellyfin do I need to fuck around with my folder structures ? No special case just /movie/title | tv/title in my use-case with the usual arr stack for grabbing.
I have Plex and Jellyfin running off the exact same media library no problem at all. So there should be zero need to modify anything--if anything Jellyfin seems a little better at catching "extras" folders than Plex.
I don’t need remote playback for movies/tvs but I have no idea how to replace Plexamp and if you have suggestions, feel free to mention it.
The Jellyfin app plays music--but it's definitely NOT a music app. I always hear Symfonium highly recommended, but have not yet given it a whirl myself.
I think I'll give it a try then.
Is there any consensus which client is better for desktop and android ?
Thank you.
I have a huge issue with this post.
You can get things like intro detection and subtitle downloading to work with plugins, but you have to work at it.
You install the plugin and run the routine. There's literally nothing to setup...
Hardware acceleration still kind of sucks.
What are you even talking about? Hardware acceleration has worked absolutely flawlessly in Jellyfin since I've set it up. HEVC encoding is particularly great, and required nothing but a single click to enable it. Jellyfin re-encodes my videos using my GPU into HEVC without issues.
The variety in app experience is bewildering sometimes. Apps look and feel very different between platforms.
This is the only real valid criticism, but it's not even an issue. It's by design. Plex designs a single app and stretches it so it's the same on every platform which may sound great, but it's not... It's only to save them development time. Jellyfin has an android app for phones, and android app for tablets, and an android app for televisions each of which play to the strengths of the different platforms... That's not a bad thing, that's a good thing.
Android TV app support sucks.
This is the fault of the television manufacturers, not the android app. This isn't even valid criticism against Jellyfin.
The app is difficult to navigate and has a bunch of weird edges, like subtitle defaults not working.
- You can change the theme in any way you want. You can even download CSS directly from the web and change the TV app presentation in just about any way you want...
- The subtitle feature, again, is a limitation of the devices that display jellyfin, not a limitation of jellyfin. It's also easy to get around by extracting the subtitles.
Public network support is finicky. This is hard to quantify, but I’ve been on several remote networks where my Jellyfin connection dropped in and out and Plex did not.
Yet another example of you blaming network devices on Jellyfin... My Synology NAS sleeps if it's not used for 5 minutes--so if your buffer to jellyfin caches more than 5 minutes of media, then yeah, you're going to have issues with buffering because you'll run through your 5 minutes of media, and have to wake up the NAS to get more cache. This is again, not a jellyfin issue, it's a configuration issue.
You can look at some of my other comments for more specifics, but from your language alone I don't think you're being objective here. OP states that Plex is flatly better than Jellyfin, and a bunch of Lemmy users hype it up because of a clear bias for FOSS. A reality check is a good thing, IMO; you can prefer a solution and acknowledge its faults, but people talking on the Internet tend towards extremes instead and that will disillusion anyone who tries Jellyfin expecting all the good parts of Plex but better.
I prefer FOSS everywhere it's reasonable, but I think a reality check is healthy here. Jellyfin is full of jank that you may run into because a bunch of independent devs are all doing their own thing to make it. Plex is a for-profit entity pulling in the same direction, so the experience is generally going to be more seamless and supported.
I run both Plex and Jellyfin simultaneously. I use Jellyfin on my devices, except on Android TV because the app is painful to navigate. Plex is way better for sharing, but I usually offer both. I've yet to have anyone prefer Jellyfin, Plex tends to just work on their platforms of choice so they go with it. Unless they're a technical person, it's unreasonable to expect them to muddle through the edges of Jellyfin.
I don’t think you’re being objective here
I don't feel that's the case. I feel that you're the one not being objective here. You're holding things against Jellyfin which have nothing to do with it as a platform, but instead are either misconfigurations on your part, or involve your local setup...
I also run both. I don't see what this has to do with anything. I'm not lambasting you for "choosing" Plex over Jellyfin. I'm saying you're not being objective while pretending that you are, which is simply objectively untrue.
I use Jellyfin on my devices, except on Android TV because the app is painful to navigate.
Again, this is you not being objective. You personally don't like the way the Android TV application is laid out (which is totally fine) and count that as a negative against Jellyfin--which is my issue. Objectively the Android TV design follows the current design schema for TV applications and is the same layout as most media platform applications for Android TV...
Plex is way better for sharing
Which is not what these applications are designed to do...so it's not at all weird that this is the case. You're inventing shit up as metrics to compare Jellyfin and Plex and it's just so incredibly weird to do.
These are both media streaming platforms, which they both do relatively well. The main issue between the two is Jellyfin is FOSS and Plex is not. Plex incorporates a ton of proprietary bullshit that you have to wade through or disable to get a similar experience to Jellyfin. Like "shareability." That's not what these platforms are designed for. That's what Plex was changed to provide. Comparing Jellyfin and Plex on the basis of "shareability" is like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Ford F-150 and comparing their towing capacity. It makes no goddamn sense because the Pinto was never designed to tow anything...
I have no idea what OP is talking about here, it sounds like they're only judging the app on its animation speed.
In the plex PLAYER, I constantly have to restart my tv, glitches, audio out of sync, black screen etc, stutters randomly. Incredibly annoying when I’m trying to watch something. I haven’t had a single playback issue yet with the jellyfin player. It just works
Edit: oh and how can I forget: in the plex player, sometimes “pause” just… didn’t fucking work?! Lmao. I had to exit the player and re enter. So annoying.
The Plex app for some versions of Android TV is way too chunky for the resources available. I've noticed it performs really badly with smart TVs and it seems to do worse the more background apps you have open, so I'm guessing it's memory related. It generally seems to work better on dedicated devices like Google TV, although it does still wig out sometimes and need to be restarted.
My big beef with the Jellyfin app on Android TV is that they don't include the fast scroll alphabetical bar the web UI has and the title layout is just posters. Everyone I've ever had use it complained that it's just too hard to read. Plus if you have a big library, that leaves you with 2 navigation options: scroll a bunch or type something in with the on screen keyboard. Both of those kind of stink.
I've also run into weird edges with plugins in Android TV. I could never get automatic subtitles to work consistently. The skip intro popup just doesn't appear sometimes or doesn't skip correctly when pressed. I suspect there's some translation error between the Android interface and the plugin interface.
I have been looking at JellyFin as a replacement for my aging Emby install, but the over-the-air TV support is weak and mostly broken. I am a FOSS fanboy, but first and foremost TV has to work for my household, not just for me with glitches. I suppose the correct answer is to contribute to improving it, but like most folks, free time is not copious.
One thing Jellyfin is way better at is offline viewing. I have frequent internet outages at my house and I've run into issues multiple times where Plex wouldn't stream my own local media because it couldn't connect to the internet. For this, Jellyfin has always just worked.
jellyfin is quite literally seamless in this regard, the only thing that wont work is metadata scraping (which if like me you run a yt archive, can be relatively frequent, but often isn't even a huge problem) I only notice network outages when other shit breaks lmao.
Yeah, that part about Plex has always bugged me. You can disable logins for your server with allow-listed networks, but most of the non-desktop apps have to log into the Plex platform to run.
Hardware acceleration still kind of sucks. You can get it to work, but the Jellyfin port of ffmpeg doesn’t work anywhere near as well as Plex’s.
pretty much just works for me on intel QSV. as long as you have drivers and hardware support it seems perfectly fine. Maybe plex has a cleaner implementation? Not sure, never used it.
Public network support is finicky. This is hard to quantify, but I’ve been on several remote networks where my Jellyfin connection dropped in and out and Plex did not. I suspect this is due to the Plex Relay service making up for bad routes between my house and the network.
depending on your network configuration, and routing of the network, this is most likely to be plex relays, this wouldn't be a jellyfin issue, it would be a plex feature. You could easily fix this with a relay VPN server or something like that. (you probably shouldn't publicly expose services these days anyway.)
The performance of hardware acceleration in Jellyfin is markedly worse in my experience. My A380 can handle 2-3x more streams in Plex than it can in Jellyfin. My theory is that it's the jellyfin ffmpeg port slowing things down, but I admittedly don't have much evidence to back that up beyond the fact that Plex's transcoder is built on ffmpeg as well.
Plex Relays are a feature, but that's sort of the point. You get that stability from Plex by default and it works on all clients. There is no realistic way you're going to get all remote client devices on a VPN for Jellyfin. Maybe one day Jellyfin can offer that as a paid option, a la Nabu Casa for Homeassistant.
Media servers tend to get shared around with friends and family and these edges will start to drive you nuts if you have more than a handful of users. I do not want to try to walk a family member through setting up a VPN on their smart TV.
The performance of hardware acceleration in Jellyfin is markedly worse in my experience. My A380 can handle 2-3x more streams in Plex than it can in Jellyfin.
i've never used plex or benchmarked it, so it's possible that it does, i wonder if anybody else has reproduced that behavior, i know a lot of people do plex/jellyfin benchmarks these days. Be surprised if that hadn't yet happened. It shouldn't be any faster or slower if you're using the exact same transcoding settings, it's all limited by the hardware physically, so it's possible it was that. Could theoretically be bad drivers, or bad support i guess, but that would be a separate issue.
Maybe one day Jellyfin can offer that as a paid option, a la Nabu Casa for Homeassistant.
definitely a possibility, but then again there are several ways of solving this problem, in homelab universal manners, so maybe they should offer a more generic service instead.
It shouldn't be any faster or slower if you're using the exact same transcoding settings
That's sort of the point, both are based on ffmpeg but neither is using vanilla ffmpeg. Plex's seems to work a lot better on the same hardware for me, but more importantly it's not something you have to fiddle with. You just check the box and it figures out a decent setting. Jellyfin has some basic defaults for Intel/nVidia but there are a ton of tweakable settings that you have to go figure out.
There's probably some way to fix the issue but it'd take a ton of fiddling, and that's the jank I keep referring to. A lot of people on Lemmy just ignore the rough edges and act like it doesn't matter just because they can get past it or because it's FOSS and they refuse to use anything else. Not everyone on here is a full-time software engineer, though; IMO it's better to be honest about shortcomings and set expectations well. More people self-hosting their media is a net positive IMO.
Plex has people they can pay to make their product better (and at least for the moment they're still paying them), Jellyfin straight up doesn't have those resources. I hope that changes because Plex is not on a good trajectory as a company. The Homeassistant model seems like a good one that gives people a good reason to contribute code and money, I really hope the Jellyfin guys do something along those lines.
I think it sounds like you want a paid product that just works out of the box. Jellyfin has some rough edges sure, but it's also a volunteer project for the most part.
I've got to disagree or clarify with some of these points. These points seem subjective and I feel the need to say something in case others are trying to compare plex/jellyfin.
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Hardware acceleration works just fine? Unless there's some hardware specific issue?
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The difference in apps is because there's two platforms. The web player (with CSS themeing) and the native (like on Android, which is a straight up android app, not a web page). There's some capabilities that you can only get on Android if you build an app instead of a web player. There's only like one guy building the android TV app.
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Unfortunately just one guy working in his spare time on the android TV app. I've never had subtitle issues either (might be a good time to open a bug in report?)
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Jellyfin "remote" is pretty rudimentary. You'd be better off just accessing it through a tunnel anyways -- and then youd have access to your own just not your server.
This isn't about want, it's a reality check. OP said jellyfin is better than Plex now, and by objective measure it is not better for most people yet. False expectations hurt Jellyfin adoption, you need to try it with the expectation of jankiness or you'll just be annoyed by the edges.
Op's criteria wasn't "is it a good product?", it was "is it better than Plex?". Stop taking valid criticism as if it were an attack. If we want software to improve we have to be honest about its shortcomings.
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