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This just in- man struggles with basic empathy, is wildly invalidating for no real reason to a person venting their frustrations
Edit: for the sake of clarity, I'm doing a bit here. I think the guy in the comic is an ass for making the other person's venting into a competition and invalidating their frustrations. I think people who do that are emotionally and interpersonally inept and it hurts the people around them
This just in- a man speaking for women on what to be upset about
Advocating for basic empathy is really not a thing that has to be gatekept to one gender 🤷
Ok then.
This just in- a person speaking for other people on what to be upset about
Are you referring to me, or the comic? (Earnest question, the internet makes things ambiguous sometimes)
You. A rule I stick with is everyone on the internet is male until proven otherwise. However evidence points that you are male.
I didn't tell anyone what to feel, I described the guy in the comic as an asshole (for acting like a dick) in a silly way as if I were a news reporter. I think he's a dick.
I don't have to be a woman to say that it's a dick move to be invalidating to someone explaining that they struggle with a certain experience. Or to hear them and then immediately make it into a contest. That has nothing to do with being a man or a woman, and everything to do with having basic social skills and empathy.
And I'm "vaguely masculine" at best.
Lol. I get what you mean by "vaguely masculine."" My original argument can easily be put into the idea of individual persons going beyond the sexes. Speak for yourself as an individual. Let other people speak for themselves as individuals. Now, this is the part where you point out my hypocrisy, and to be honest, it's deserved. However, you should let people who are going to accept it or reject it speak for themselves. We are supposed to live with the idea that OUR voices matter, so speaking for another person completely contradicts the idea of individuality
It seems odd to assume that the joke I posted was speaking for other people purely because I assumed the voice of a character, and then act like I'm somehow doing something wrong on the basis of that assumption
You assumed I meant other people should be mad about something- I didn't. You assumed I was a man- only in the loosest sense of the word. And then you criticised me for speaking on behalf of others by saying that I'm telling women what to be upset about? To be totally honest that sounds a hellofalot more speaking on other people's behalf than what I wrote.
I was being silly about the fact that he sounds like a dick. And I don't agree with the notion that I'm deserving of criticism for your misplaced assumptions :(
Regardless, take care. If I see you around lemmy again I hope our next interaction can be less hostile.
Haha. Ok. Why do you carry a condom in your wallet? That's pretty damning evidence that you're male. And you weren't being silly. You were commentating, and now you're back-peddling to say it was fun. I'm not refuting that you want or are a feminist ally, but the whole point is to let the individual woman be offended. When your comment attempted to speak for the whole of women. It's not necessarily your intention I'm arguing, but the action of saying that women in general should be offended at this comic. That is at least the perception you gave. And you can keep saying you were trying to be cheeky, but you yourself also said that context is difficult in these situations
Only men carry condoms? That's easily your wildest take in a string of wild gendered unfair stereotypes
Its literally a quarter and I say as much in the thread under the post he's refrencing 🙃
No. That's not the only reason. I'll break it down:
So you have a folding, pocket wallet. Not necessarily a thing that shows gender, but the 2 condom imprints is something to take note of. On top of that, a trans ftm would still have little need for a condom. If they want to be tom-boyish, then they might carry a condom, but it also depends on their stage of transition if they choose to have a transition that way or not. A mtf trans might need a condom, but not stereotyped in carrying them in their fold wallet. A lesbian might carry a fold wallet, but why do they need a condom? A man (straight or gay) will have the most need for a condom in their fold wallet making them the most logical response to be a naturally born male carrying a condom. So sticking with the evidence of a condom in the wallet, I can begin to break everything else down.
The person I originally spoke with is young and had an appreciation for 80s tech (that explains their watch) carrying a hankerchief is weird, but I'll assume that makes them modern hipsters. Carrying a pen with you everywhere? Well that just makes you a nerd and almost (potentially) deliberately going against the ebb and flow. Granted i don't believe there's anything wrong with that, but all signs point towards that the person I was originally speaking with is either a naturally born male that is a hipster and nerd (which tells me a lot about their idea of feminism) or a previously transitioned male (which, and this is IMO, you've lost your right to speak for the gender you transitioned from and should begin representing the gender you have or are transitioning to). I can keep going if you're interested
Wow. All that and you didn't even see the part where I say it's a quarter to like six different people. Jesus Christ you're fucking exhausting. "Man" is a complicated label for me. I'm male. I'm more masculinely aligned than feminine. But I'm also currently on estrogen and testosterone blockers. I don't specify in part because it's personal and messy and I didn't see the relevance.
Also IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. I'm allowed to criticize the behaviour of fictional characters regardless of being amab and my critisism is fundamentally not about his being a man or her being a woman. Do you always go around being an insufferable jackass to people based on literally nothing but your assumptions about them?
Christ man, why be like this when you could be literally any other way? I don't deserve the weird and unpleasant way you've engaged with me.
Don't wear yourself out with those mental gymnastics. We don't need an entire essay mansplaining your thought process. I'm glad your intentions are pure but the fact remains. You are being bigoted so just stop. Don't tell us why it's ok for you to say bigoted things because you mean something different in your head. Just stop saying them.
I literally don't carry condoms in my wallet. You can see in that comment thread that its my quarters for getting a cart at Aldi. I am biologically male, but that doesn't make me a man. I also sit down to pee and have boobs. My relationship is with gender is more than a little bit complicated. It also does not matter to the argument, men are allowed to criticize people's behavior towards women, and it'd be dumb to argue they can't.
And yes, telling what people mean over the internet is hard, which is why I don't suggest that someone is doing something wrong when I don't know what they mean, and instead ask, like I asked you.
And to be very clear, assigning my intentions or motives is also a dick thing to do; I did actually mean that he's an asshole because he's being dismissive of someone's frustrations. Its not helped by the fact that he's being dismissive of a uniquely afab experience and saying he has it worse as a man, but the way he engages with her is shitty entirely independent from the lens of gender. I think that if you hear someone's frustrations and respond with "wow, my problem is way bigger than yours" you're an emotionally and interpersonally incompetent jerk.
I literally did not say that women should be offended by this, that is an interpretation on your part, and going around calling people out based on your assumptions of them is a jerk thing to do.
And to reiterate, your callout is much more an example of speaking for others than "wow, that guy lacks any empathy and is being shitty to her"
This entire exchange has been entirely unnecessarily hostile. Have a nice day.
No it's not. if we're talking about the fake circumstance of the comic as being a reality, then shouldn't it be up to the woman to say that line of conversation or action is uncomfortable? We're all individuals right?
And because one thing is offensive for one person, what makes it offensive for the next person. Let people say for themselves what offends them
Your argument is that I'm speaking for others, which you argue by telling me what I meant by my own comment.
That's stupid. I shouldn't have to point out that that's stupid, but here we are.
With regards to your other comment, you are of course allowed to criticize what I had to say, but if you go about it in a weird, unpleasant, and hostile way, where you make assumptions about me, act entitled to knowing personal intimate details about me, poorly overanalyze my profile history, and argue what I did wrong by doing literally that exact thing to me, then I'm entirely entitled to telling you I think you're being an asshole.
The difference is that I criticized a fictional character, and you're talking to an actual human. So when you go about your disagreement in a weird, shitty way, a real human being reads what you said and is affected by it.
It would have been entirely reasonable to say "it kinda feels like you're telling other people to be mad about this, I don't think we should speak on other people's behalf". If you felt it was unclear what I meant, it would have been entirely appropriate to ask, in exactly the same way as I asked you what you meant.
I'm not unhappy you disagree with me, I'm unhappy you insist on telling me what I meant by my own comment, and are acting like you're entitled to knowing what genetailia I have. What's in my pants is none of your fucking business. it wasn't even relevant to the argument.
The way you've engaged with me has been super shitty, for no reason. Unlike the person I jokingly criticized I'm an actual human, and after criticizing me (fine, people on the internet are more hostile than they need to be for no reason, whatever), you went on to be wildly disrespectful, make assumptions, assert that I'm lying about what was meant by my original comment and that you "see through me", and play guessing games about whether I have a penis or not on the mistaken premise that having a penis makes me a man, and that being a man would invalidate my argument.
Thats not an appropriate way to engage with people. We don't get to choose whether we understand social norms or what's considered inappropriate, but that doesn't absolve you of the fact you've been a fucking asshole to me over the fact you thought I was speaking for other people when I left a joke comment under a comic.
You're not entitled to knowing personal shit about me, or what's in my pants, and you certainly don't get to speak on my behalf about what I did or didn't mean. You wanna ask what I mean? Tell me you think it came off like I'm telling people what to think? Totally appropriate. You didn't do that.
And on that note, I'm not engaging with you anymore, you're clearly either lacking the interpersonal skills to engage with people around you in a way that doesn't suck, or you're a troll and you've successfully wasted some of my time. Horray for you 🎉.
Have a nice day.
subjectivity is the default. if you assume every statement on the internet is meant to be objective, you'll go mad.
Every statement on the internet is objective. Guess I'm mad