The International 2024 - Main Event Discussion Thread
The International 2024 - Main Event Discussion Thread
Liquid ended up taking it 2-0 versus C9, but there were moments during the second game where it looked like C9 could almost hold their own. I hope they stay a bit longer in the lower bracket, I still really enjoy their drafts and gameplay.
Liquid though, woof. They look unbelievably good right now and Nisha looks in absolute top form. Is he the best player in the world right now?
Even their first game C9's team fight looked fairly decent - just completely outmanoeuvred on the map in terms of farm. Maybe the team fights might've gone the other way if they had a vessel or something to counter the insane spell lifesteal on 33.
Liquid looking amazing, but so has other teams in the past and cracked in the grand finals. Insania definitely deserves the title tho.
You're right about game one actually, 33 being a complete menace on SK did steal the spotlight a bit, and again there were multiple fights were it felt like C9 were so close to coming out on top.
Liquid especially has a bit of a record of choking in finals/semi finals so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Though I hope they at least put up a good performance this time, even should they lose.
Both teams played great. Game 1 was a bit one-sided, but Game 2 was a really fun game and (in my opinion) proved that they are definitely competitive against one of the best teams in the world. Really hoping Cloud9 make it to the lower bracket final - their games are really fun to watch and it feels great to cheer for them.
WEU dominance is ridiculous. We started with 5/16 teams in the tournament - the most from any region. And now that we're down to only 6 teams overall, but all 5 from WEU are still present. And fully occupying the winner's bracket as well.
A bit sad to be honest. I really hope we see a revival in some of the other regions in the coming years.
A revival would only be the appropriate term for Chinese and CIS Dota, to be honest. SA, NA and SEA scenes seem to have actually developed the last say, five years. Just not enough to offset the downfall of China and CIS.
CIS is still pretty good in my opinion. BetBoom exceeded my expectations, and if they had an easier draw, I think they would have made top 6. They did look pretty terrible against Falcons though. And Spirit had a pretty good season overall - they did win a few tournaments if I'm not mistaken. They just looked like they didn't understand the meta all that well. I also wonder if they have been a bit spoiled by success, and maybe lost their drive to win to some extent. 1W didn't look that bad either to be honest.
But agreed on the other regions. It really sucks because it just doesn't feel like Dota is a global game anymore, sadly.
Really looks like Liquid has GG's number so far in this series (middle of game 2)
We'll see. Liquid just potentially threw the game there on that Dyrachio bait. After all the Liquid - GG finals PTSD I would never count out Liquids potential of crumbling. Also, Naga late game is a scary thing.
EDIT: seems I was wrong, thankfully
Looking forward to the Liquid - Cloud 9 game later. Both teams looking hot.
Been looking forward to that all week, they're my favourite teams to watch right now. C9 have maybe been the most interesting team of the tournament for me, doing stuff like Watson Invoker and picking Winter Wyvern and Bane.
I unfortunately haven't been able to catch as much of the dotes as I usually do, but I absolutely agree that C9 squad is great to watch. Ever since the original Creepwave stack with Crystalis carry they've been pretty exciting.
I heard one of the analysts mentioning that these funky picks are not necessarily that good, but just the fact they push the opposition to deviate from their practised and revised strategy causes them to make mistakes. Can't see Liquid faring too badly however.
Beautiful Game 3 between GG and Tundra. I always feel like GG's strategies are very fragile, but they proved that it's more resilient than I thought. A really nice demonstration of how they can still push their early game advantages late and win, and overall, their map movements lategame looked amazing. I've also been very impressed with how Quinn has been playing. He does so much for them in all of their teamfights.
I'll be cheering for GG in the final, but can't be upset with whoever wins. All 10 of them deserve it so much.
I was rooting like crazy for Tundra as it would have been so nice for me to have two teams I like in the final and I could just relax and not care about who wins. And it would have been nice to have a break from Liquid vs GG. And you have to give it to Tundra, they did really well to almost salvage that third game. Very impressive display by Pure again, as well as the supports clutching save after save.
GG played well though, they're good and they have been for a few years now. Can't take anything away from them, I just wish they were more likeable. Much like Falcons I respect their skill but have a hard time rooting for them.
I still think they will win it as Liquid choking in a final against GG is such a tradition I think the psychological factor will be huge here.
Tough for BB team, but Falcons are just a size too big for them. They did put up a better showing in game 2, but even then it felt like there was a gulf of skill between the teams. Falcons demonstrating Centaur's cart as a Doom counter was cool to watch. It's too bad they're this good, as I deeply dislike Saudi sportswashing.
Falcons are out, which makes me happy, but overall this was a fairly disappointing penultimate day of TI. I wish we had more even back and forth matches instead of straight 2-0s. Liquid continue to impress with Nisha playing out of his mind, they have to be favourites at this point. You can never count out GG though - especially in a final against Liquid - so I'm hoping it will be Tundra taking the second spot tomorrow instead .They've looked really good today and Topson pulling out Diffusal Sniper was an instant classic. Also blows my mind that Saksa isn't on any team right now, winning TI as a stand-in would be quite something. Wonder where he ends up.
I also feel like the production is a little... bland? Maybe they're saving everything for tomorrow, but the crowd and arena and action in between games has felt lackluster compared to the halcyon days of KeyArena TIs in Seattle. I miss stuff like The International Archive, Remember When or even the superb Support Support. And matching the energy of the crowd in, outside of and around the arena in Seattle is a tough ask, I suppose. But I miss the amount of signs and costumes and Kaci doing the rounds.
I hope there's at least something in the cards for tomorrow.
I hear what you're saying regarding the production, but I like it. Overall, it feels like it has been a very chill and enjoyable TI. Sure, Valve is in vesting less and less in TI over the years, but at the same time, I don't think it's sustainable to make TI a huge event every year. We had that for the first ~10 TIs, but now I would be happy to just see a fun event each year that's great while not being over the top.
It may be the case that it wasn't sustainable, but I doubt money is the factor. I think Valve is just less invested in Dota these days. Regardless of what is the reason, I miss TI feeling more special. I'm the opposite of you I guess, I miss TI being a huge festival of Dota. I miss the huge installations around KeyArena and Kaci talking to people around the Secret Shop. I miss the shots of people watching the huge screens outside on the grass enjoying a festival atmosphere. I miss the goofy All-Star matches.
TI just feels like any other big LAN event nowadays, which is a shame.
I'm happy Liquid won, I think the old HoN trio deserve it, I think Nisha really deserves it and 33 is of course a great player too. I'm glad the Liquid redemption story vs GG gave us at least one memorable story and moment from this TI, which otherwise has felt fairly bland.
I've touched on it before but TI losing its magic is very sad to me. It's been in decline for a few years already, but it's more obvious now than it ever has been that Valve's investment in Dota is just not what it once was. This was the first TI Valve was fully hands-off with - from now on its 100% a PGL product and I think it shows.
I miss True Sight, it's one of the best things related to TI. I miss seeing more of the games in front of a crowd (they even seemed to filter out the crowd noise?). I miss the Lategame with Pyrion Flax aftershow. I miss player profiles and video archive snippets (patience from Zhou!). I miss the All-Star games, despite them being goofy and sometimes terrible.
TI is just another LAN event now, and that's such a shame when you think about the heights of what it once was.
Valve doesn't organize majors anymore right? I'm not monitoring the Dota 2 news so Idk. I know Valve didn't do a pro circuit point system for 2024. Then they said they were still focused on The international. Why did they give the keys to PGL? It's already so :( that they don't do True sight anymore. Dota 2 probably isn't high on the list of their profit sources but I hope they'll still give it a moderate amount of care.
I think Valve is completely hands-off when it comes to pro Dota now. They single-handedly organised the first five Internationals, after which they slowly and gradually started offloading more and more responsibilities onto PGL. That's why it's been a slow process, TI6 for example (considered by many the best TI of all time) was still mostly a Valve event.
Dota 2 probably isn't high on the list of their profit sources but I hope they'll still give a moderate amount of care to it.
I don't think profitability is a major factor, to be honest. Valve gets enough money from Steam to do whatever they want, and they've demonstrated many times over that they're not primarily motivated by making money when it comes down to what projects they choose to undertake - or not undertake, for that matter.
I think they used to be really passionate about Dota, and that passion is just not there to the same extent anymore. Valve employees are allowed to do pretty much whatever they want, and over the years I assume the amount of people who want to be involved with Pro Dota has dwindled.
There still seem to be enough people around that still care about the game itself, at least. It's still getting updates and new content, so there's that.
There was a point in game 1 of the finals (Liquid versus Gaimin) when Liquid slew dyrachyo. Then Ace went near the Liquid heroes. It was 5 versus 4. Why did Ace go near Liquid? Did he throw?
Liquid dominated games 1–3. Micke was reliable. Nisha was all over the place doing damage versus the Gaimin heroes. 33 was a 👍 offlane. It was like Liquid had 2 mids, Nisha and 33. Boxi and Insania were 👍 supports. Boxi Tusk was 1 of the best Tusk I've seen.
Sad to see Falcons beat C9, I really dislike that team and was rooting for C9 against the odds. I think the games today were similar to yesterday, in that C9 were so close to being able to compete at this level, but again were just outplayed and out-executed in both teamfights and macro play on the map. Also have to say I've not been particularly impressed with DM, feels like he is a weak link on that team. No[o]ne also didn't feel like he was hitting quite the same heights of performance as earlier in this tournament. Watson looked really good again, though.
Falcons are really strong though and I'm not happy about it. But at the end of the day you have to respect their skill if nothing else.