Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
Israel declares siege of Gaza as Hamas threatens to start killing hostages
Hamas says Israeli strikes have killed some captives and it will kill another if bombing without warning continues
Highlight:
“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant said. “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”
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No electricity, no food, no water…
If everyday people have the choice of sitting and starving or doing something about it, I doubt many would go quietly into the night.
Israel will create the next generation of extremists if they do not kill every single person in Gaza. We’ve seen this in every modern Middle East conflict in the past 40 or so years.
I always find it odd how people blame “extremists” and the Palestinians for this.
Israel starts to steal homes, land and killing men, children and women. No one bat an eye to that.
Then extremists and hate towards Israel came and bam, they are the bad ones suddenly.
Certainly what Hamas does is entirely wrong however - People cannot expect them be silent and get killed by Israeli forces.
This is what happens from decades upon decades of oppression.
This entire conflict was created by Israel stealing land and starting an genocide mission on Palestinians.
Even killing every person in Gaza will just bread more extremists. Gazans are not the only Palestinians and they are not the only ones affected by Israeli oppression.
Israel should negotiate with Hamas NOW and stop the siege on Gaza fully.
How do you negotiate with someone that just kidnapped and executed or planning to execute hundreds of civilians?
What do you ask for here? And what do you give up?
Release Palestinians illegally detained by Israel without trial in place fo the hoostages.
.... And stop settling the west bank, revert to the 1967 borders, etc.
You know what. Sure. I think Israel will go for this.
Release of all illegally detained Palestinians.
In return, Israel gets
- safe return of all hostages taken
- complete surrender of all Hamas leadership
- complete surrender and custody of all Palestinian combatants
- including anyone who conspired or otherwise assisted in the recent act of terrorism
Feels to me like that wouldn't work on Hamas' side. Another situation where Israel is the total winner.
Well since Hamas has already executed civilians, and Israel has both the military advantage and support of world leaders, they are not exactly negotiating from a position of strength.
I don't think your plan would even remotely lead to a joint country solution, more like Israel just wins.
I didn't suggest any plan leading to a joint county solution.
You know what would not even remotely lead to such a solution? Kidnapping and murdering civilians.
Just so we're clear, everyone loses here. But Israel is not going to negotiate with terrorists, nor should they.
Ah sorry I mixed up the threads. In another one, I was asking people what they would do if they were Hamas to reach a joint state solution. My bad.
You know what would not even remotely lead to such a solution? Kidnapping and murdering civilians.
I agree. Hamas are dumb as fuck.
Just so we’re clear, everyone loses here. But Israel is not going to negotiate with terrorists, nor should they.
And Israel won't care about civilian lives either. Not wanting to negotiate with terrorists doesn't mean all those kids in Gaza had to die. This is not what "not negotiating with terrorists" looks like. What it looks like is wanting to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
In your example above, Israel takes all while Palestinians just get "prisoners" back (prisoners that are not really being tried for anything, a literal war crime, so for all intents and purposes they are not detained under any reasonable law and they don't have the most basic of rights)... and Palestine gets nothing.
Seems to me like maybe Israel should negotiate with terrorists if it means less dead civilians. But Israel doesn't care about that. And this is why we are here today.
In your example above, Israel takes all while Palestinians just get "prisoners" back (prisoners that are not really being tried for anything, a literal war crime, so for all intents and purposes they are not detained under any reasonable law and they don't have the most basic of rights)... and Palestine gets nothing.
Palestine also get the benefit of not having their cities ravaged while Israel troops hunt down enemy combatants. They get to keep some semblance of an autonomous nation. They also minimize civilian casualties in their end, if they actually cared about that.
Seems to me like maybe Israel should negotiate with terrorists if it means less dead civilians. But Israel doesn't care about that. And this is why we are here today.
It's very hard to make the argument that Israel should care about less dead civilians when the other side specifically targets civilians. I'm not sure why you keep expecting Israel to negotiate with restraint when they have no incentive to negotiate at all.
What will happen if Israel does not come to the table? Hamas will kill innocent people? And if Israel negotiates and comes to peace with Hamas, the killing will stop? History shows otherwise.
And since that killing innocent part already happens, there's nothing left to bargain for is there?
I also take issue with the fact that bringing accountability to Hamas for what happened is considered one sided negotiations for Israel. How is justice for a terrorist act considered a total victory?
Israel has executed their own disproportionally large share of civilians today.
How do you negotiate with someone that just kidnapped and executed or planning to execute hundreds of civilians?
You don't. There's no negotiating with terrorists, it's too late. There is no good solution. The best Israel can do right now is make every effort to target Hamas, minimize civilian casualties and try to rescue as many people as they can.
If they go nuts and start trying to exterminate in Gaza they'll just fuel the next terrorist standoffs and keep this going for several more decades.
If they go nuts and start trying to exterminate in Gaza they’ll just fuel the next terrorist standoffs and keep this going for several more decades.
Hey, guess what's going to happen!
I hope I'm wrong.
But I doubt it.
I hope so too, but measured and calm behavior is not what I've come to expect from Bibi unfortunately.
I think the goal might just be to kill every single person in Gaza
You think the ones who escape are going to turn over a new leaf? Or the ones looking on from without?
I imagine if Germany or Japan had the same mentality, they wouldn't be where they are now. A good leader would focus on the future of their own people, not bringing them into destruction.
No, decades of extremist indoctrination that is Gazan education system make extremist. Disinformation is what makes extremists. And it's all being supported by the whole world. Noone in Gaza needs to work, they have EU+US+Qatar welfare system, they have literal nazi shit in their textbooks, they have their stupid religious excuses too, what do you think a young man raised in that filth would do with his free time except slitting throats and launching rockets?
what a deranged view.
True, just look at Japan and Germany. They took so much devastation, yet they can rise above others because they don't have the same mentality as these people.
What the actual fuck are you talking about. The Japanese literally used suicide attacks and were so brainwashed they believed suicide was preferable to enemy capture. The Germans literally committed the multiple genocides. They were rehabilitated over time but it took time and effort. Both committed horrific atrocities, yet through international effort, are largely reformed.
That's the fuck I was talking about. They admitted their defeat, and moved on to rebuild themselves
With extensive economic aid and overall support from the western allies. Also while being in control of their borders and recognized as sovereign nations.
You are not comparing apples with oranges here, but cars with trees or something.
Japan and Germany both received massive amounts of financial support and investment to basically shape them into allies. If Germany/Japan had just been beaten the shit of and left to fend for themselves under financial and social sanction then we would have already had WW3. What a ridiculous comparison that you need to stop using for this racist tirade of yours.
I'm not being racist, it's just that most of you fail to see the reality of the situation here. Germany and Japan know when to admit defeat. Do you really think they got the assistance straight away after the war? No, they sort themselves out first, and rebuilt their society. The fundings came much later. Germany even had to pay for the cost of the war for years. Over the course of 80 years, you think how many fundings palestine had received from muslim countries AND the west? The funding which were used to buy weapons to attack their neighbour and further radicalized their own children. Don't forget that it was the palestine who rejected the two-state solution and the muslim countries who jointly attacked israel first. Even now some muslim country still rejects israel's right to exist.
I was an avid supporter of palestine for decades, blindly supporting them just because we had the same religion. But now, I'm also thinking from the perspective of the israeli here. If my surrounding neighbours keep threatening my existence, will I just sit around and let them plot my demise? If they just focus on improving themselves, I wouldn't mind with whatever they're doing with their lives.
May I remind you that Germany not knowing when to admit defeat is what caused WW2? The entire reason Germany and Japan were propped up economically was because the Americans basically shut down the French and British diplomats for causing the fuckup with their treaties after WW1.
That's the point. You have to know when to admit that you were already defeated, so you can focus on your own nation. As an investor myself, why should I invest in a fucked up country?