The future of Linux
The future of Linux
I'm not proposing anything here, I'm curious what you all think of the future.
What is your vision for what you want Linux to be?
I often read about wanting a smooth desktop experience like on MacOS, or having all the hardware and applications supported like Windows, or the convenience of Google products (mail, cloud storage, docs), etc.
A few years ago people were talking about convergence of phone/desktop, i.e. you plug your phone into a big screen and keyboard and it's now your desktop computer. That's one vision. ChromeOS has its "everything is in the cloud" vision. Stallman has his vision where no matter what it is, the most important part is that it's free software.
If you could decide the future of personal computing, what would it be?
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I don't like the migration to wayland when it is so woefully not ready to replace x11, terrible a11y, window embedding is still non existent, the window positioning seems like we might be getting is a watered down version that still wont be compatible with many apps.
Im not saying x11 is good, I am more then familiar with the multitude of x11 issues that are honestly a meme at this point. pretending like migrating to wayland will be this massive step forward is wrong however, it's a step to the side, just as broken, but different issues we can pick from.
x11 is broken by design, and wayland is designed to be broken
terrible a11y
Don't think that is up to Wayland, but UI toolkits. What specifically do you mean?
window embedding is still non existent
They have documentation on how to do this. If there's no libraries for this yet, it's not up to Wayland, but maybe lack of interest.
the window positioning seems like we might be getting is a watered down version that still wont be compatible with many apps
Wait and see. What I've seen discussed seems pretty good. Also, they have to take into account that not every compositor is a floating window manager.
Don’t think that is up to Wayland, but UI toolkits. What specifically do you mean?
a11y requires a large range of features, because of wayland most OSKs are now platform specific, we can't have overlays (we might be able to when the layers protocol lands, but thats a privleged protocol which is kind of up in the air how it's handled) etc. a11y requires an entire ecosystem, you cant just lay it on the tool kits, compositors handle a lot too.
They have documentation on how to do this. If there’s no libraries for this yet, it’s not up to Wayland, but maybe lack of interest.
I've tried this a while ago, it's a bloody joke, not only is it much harder to actually just do it, worse performance, and now I need to manage a bunch of additional crap. the fact that this is actually the reccomended process is a bloody joke, if you want window embedding, just use xwayland.
Wait and see. What I’ve seen discussed seems pretty good.
we shall see
Also, they have to take into account that not every compositor is a floating window manager.
I have absolutely no idea why people keep saying this. weston doesn't support some xdg protocols, and gnome some ext protocols, so why the does this matter? clearly neither xdg nor ext protocols are mandatory, so it has nothing to do with compositors not wanting to implement it.
if it's because tiling managers can't do it, then simply combine both protocols into one, or use both protocols.
a11y requires a large range of features, because of wayland most OSKs are now platform specific, we can’t have overlays (we might be able to when the layers protocol lands, but thats a privleged protocol which is kind of up in the air how it’s handled) etc. a11y requires an entire ecosystem, you cant just lay it on the tool kits, compositors handle a lot too.
Ah, that makes sense. Tbf I'm not too familiar with it and mainly thought about screen readers and such, where only the toolkit knows what text is displayed since everything afterwards just gets a frame buffer. It would be great to get a portable way to do overlays and feedback like "user has focused a text input control", yeah. How does this work on X11?
I have absolutely no idea why people keep saying this. weston doesn’t support some xdg protocols, and gnome some ext protocols, so why the does this matter? clearly neither xdg nor ext protocols are mandatory, so it has nothing to do with compositors not wanting to implement it.
As far as I know xdg protocols are supposed to be mandatory, ext ones aren't. Weston devs just don't care I suppose. (Though I can't actually verify this so correct me if I'm wrong. I just know that getting a protocol included into xdg is a lot harder.)