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I’ve done no such thing. Which small group are you imagining I’m advocating for being in charge of everything?
You clarified the various kinds of processes you consider as more versus less favorable for how individuals would enter into positions of power.
If processes exist for how individuals may enter into positions of power, then the individuals who have entered into positions of power, by such processes, constitute a group who holds power over society, and that, compared to the whole mass of society, is small.
Therefore, you have tacitly defended a system in which one small group holds power over the rest of society.
It’s extremely reductive to pretend that how many...
You are distorting my language, simply to make it assert what you feel inclined to negate.
The challenge, which you have avoided, is to consider critically the benefit, if any, that one group having power over another confers to the group that is disempowered.
There may be a more direct path toward identifying the essence of disagreement.
Let's make it simple.
Considered abstractly, a system may take any one of three forms...
- One group holds power, and the group holding power exacerbates problems for those who are disempowered.
- One group holds power, and the group holding power does not exacerbate problems for those who are disempowered.
- Power is not held by a particular group.
You seem to have implied two assertions...
- The preferred system is (2).
- Among those systems that are in fact possible is (2).
Would you please justify one or both of the assertions that you seem to have insinuated?
Let's make it simple.
No, let's not. Oversimplification was your mistake from the start.
A system may take one of three forms
Ridiculous.
Would you please justify one or both assertions?
Nope, because I never claimed either thing. I'm not going to validate your strawman argument by acting as if it's logically sound.
You’re a more patient man than me. I would have stopped acknowledging that guy like two replies ago.
You say patient, I say impulse control issues making me bad at not replying when it's clearly not worth the time and effort any more 😄
A system may take one of three forms
Ridiculous.
If so, then it should be trivial for you to show an alternative.
Please do so.
No. You're either not arguing in good faith or showing yourself incapable of appreciating vital complexities. Either way, it's not worth my time and effort to continue down this road. Have the day you deserve.
Is a good faith argument dismissing any idea with which you disagree, by invoking a single word, and then declining to provide the counterargument you have implied is trivial?
Which vital complexity am I incapable of appreciating?
Is a good faith argument a response based on an ad hominem?
You are being immensely hypocritical.
I said have the day you deserve.
Sure. Enjoy making yourself seem extremely clever simply by asserting yourself as the only one capable of "appreciating vital complexities".
Expecting me to keep engaging after saying I don't want to just because you're demanding it? Yes, that IS ridiculous.
The only reason I'm still answering at all is because I have poor impulse control. Please stop.
The only reason I’m still answering at all is because I have poor impulse control.
Well, it would seem best to think about others' ideas more deeply, before simply returning summary dismissals.
It is bad faith for you to assert pejorative dismissals of someone else's behavior or position that you are unwilling to engage or to defend meaningfully.
i think, i found the issue in your exchange:
it's the way the two of you define "groups".
the person you replied to defines a "group" as members of a social grouping; they were talking about rich people as a "group".
you were talking about power being held by an unspecified, arbitrary "group" of no particular social membership; i.e.
to you, a democracy is a power structure that is "controlled" by a "group".
to the person you replied to, the U.S. government is a power structure controlled by a specific "group".
when they say "a minority group", they are talking about rich people being a small percentage of the population, and thus a minority, which is making laws benefiting mostly themselves.
when you talk about "a group holding power over others" you are talking about an abstract, arbitrary, and undefined collection of people.
to you, a coalition of far-right fascists and far-left anarchists forming a joint government would be a single "group".
to the person you replied to, that would be 2 distinct groups holding a portion of power.
you were talking past each other on different levels of abstraction.
which is why it's no wonder you accuse each other of being disingenuous... because neither of you engaged in the same conversation...
at least that's the impression i got, maybe i interpreted something wrong too... short text, like a forum comment, really isn't well suited to philosophical discussions: way too much room for interpretation...
The problem was not that we understood terms differently.
We may have done, and it may have produced obstacles to communication.
However, the problem with the conversation was that the other participant made hasty assumptions, and was predisposed to attack, rather than being reserved in judgment and willing to discuss. Ironically, such eagerness led to attacking me on the inferred basis of my discussing in bad faith.
Such kinds of smug dismissals contribute to toxicity in communities. They obstruct both explaining and learning.