‘Thirsty’ ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought
‘Thirsty’ ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought
The massive computer clusters powering artificial intelligence consume vast quantities to answer the world’s queries, but how is Big Tech redressing the balance?
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/32023985
Writing a 100-word email using ChatGPT (GPT-4, latest model) consumes 1 x 500ml bottle of water It uses 140Wh of energy, enough for 7 full charges of an iPhone Pro Max
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Good thing we aren't running out of fresh water or anyth-
https://www.earth.com/news/satellites-reveal-a-sudden-drop-in-global-freshwater-levels/
Fuck.
Yeah it's not good.
I live in an area with normally lush rivers and lakes, rich forest full of life. We're going on like day 90 of drought conditions. I can't even light a candle without starting a fucking forest fire.
/Thirstily looks at Canada.
"Running out of fresh water" narration is a complete lie. I don't know why, but these articles are implying its like oil that will run out some day. No, fresh water is a manufacturable good. Worst case scenario it gets more expensive as more of it needs to be produced out of salt water ect.
You do understand that the more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it, right? That's basically the same as running out. Sure, you can desalinate the whole ocean if you want to spend the resources on it. No one is suggesting that there will one day literally be no more fresh water within the foreseeable future. That doesn't really matter to the farmers in developing countries that can't afford to irrigate their fields and thus can't feed the people there.
And then there's the fact that desalination is a huge environmental disaster.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/desalination-pours-more-toxic-brine-ocean-previously-thought
the more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it
You know, all these arguments avoid answering the question about how much more expensive water could be. And I suspect the general answer is: not much. Mass producing fresh water is well understood process. It's also a potential source of sodium for sodium-ion batteries, cheaper alternative to lithium-ion.
And then there's the fact that desalination is a huge environmental disaster.
I'm fully aware of that - what's missing there is proper regulation by local governments, preventing excess salinity of water dumped back to the ocean
Where are you gonna get the energy to desalinate water from? What about areas that are thousands of kilometres from the ocean?
Where are you gonna get the energy to desalinate water from?
From the same sources as with the energy needed to manufacture everything else. The demand for electricity has grown year by year for decades, and we haven't run out of it.
What about areas that are thousands of kilometres from the ocean?
Regular logistics as with any other good
And how will you supply that energy, while also supplying these absurdly energy intensive LLMs and cutting CO2 emmissions?
Yes, the demand has grown year by year for decades and look at the climate catastrophe it has brought us!
Climate is a separate issue. You can supply green energy, nuclear, or burn fossil fuels. Say what you want, but as far as energy production goes, free market keeps delivering since decades.
And it just happens, that regions suffering from the biggest fresh water deficit also happen to have good conditions for solar energy production.
Climate is a separate issue.
To the energy requirements of our economy? I beg to fucking differ.
And it just happens, that regions suffering from the biggest fresh water deficit also happen to have good conditions for solar energy production.
Well, I guess the droughts are their own fault, then, or what? 🙄
To the energy requirements of our economy? I beg to fucking differ.
Well, yes - because energy can be produced from renewable sources. It isn't fault of general economy, that the energy sector produces lots of CO2.
The solution isn't to scale down economy, its to replace fossil fuels with nuclear and renewables
Well, I guess the droughts are their own fault, then, or what?
What???
The solution isn't to scale down economy, its to replace fossil fuels with nuclear and renewables
There's not enough resources in the world to keep our current economic output while also switching to renewables. I think you unerestimate the energy density of fossil fuels.
Fossil fuels aren't only used by power plants and cars. The whole steel industry relies on fossils. How are you gonna supply heavy industry and electric cars and datacenters and desalination plants while also phasing out fossil power plants.
Not even talking about the problems with nuclear.
There's not enough resources in the world to keep our current economic output while also switching to renewables.
Well, you're wrong. For example in France almost all electricity comes from mix of nuclear and renewable sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_France
Around 70% nuclear, 11% hydro and only like 7,5% from fossil (rest are solar, wind and biomass)
Switching transportation to electric is much more difficult but it's happening. 10 years ago, electric cars just weren't a thing.
So, you're just ignoring industry then... ok.
A big consumer in the fresh water market is agriculture. Whenever articles talk about demand exceeding freshwater supplies, it's referring to agriculture demand, which usually draw from dams, rivers, or lakes.
City water treatmant plants also usually start with pulling water from a river or water reservoir.
The costs with these consumers suddenly spinning up a saltwater or other advanced purification plant, that could perhaps function without a large freshwater reservoir, is prohibitively expensive. Especially for developing countries, where agriculture could be a large part of the economy
Dumbo I think what people mean is that demand will exceed supply, and as a result lots and lots of people will die of thirst. Water isn't something anyone can do without.
that demand will exceed supply
You think in terms of fixed supply and fixed manufacturing capacity - but this isn't the case. Production can be expanded as demand grows
Production can be expanded as demand grows
Lol. You must really think that you're smarter than the whole field of hydrology and civil engineering, huh?