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Lemmy.ca Support / Questions @lemmy.ca BuoyantCitrus @lemmy.ca

Privacy / data retention policy

It'd be nice to (eventually!) see a link laying out a privacy policy for the instance, something like: https://newsie.social/privacy-policy

I'd especially be interested to know how long you associate the IP addresses we visit from with our accounts, who can see that info (and our emails), what other PII you store, and how long deleted posts/accounts are stored for.

(Totally get and very much appreciate that smorks &co have a lot on their plates just getting this place off the ground, not trying to demand additional work, just a suggestion. Seems like it'd take some thinking to balance with eg. a good backup regimen.)

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27 comments

  • i would like to post a privacy policy when I have some free time.

    as for your IP, i am anonymizing the ip stored in the nginx logs, basically just storing .0 for the last digit if the ip address, adapted from here: https://www.supertechcrew.com/anonymizing-logs-nginx-apache/

    that used to be in one of the lemmy recommended nginx configs, but it appears to have been removed. but it's still being used on this instance, and I should double-check to make sure it also works for IPv6 addresses.

    i also don't know if the IP is stored in the DB as well, i'd have to look through the lemmy code/tables to see if that's the case.

    i'm currently the only one with access to the server itself, so it would only be me who has access to that info.

    i don't think there's any other PII that is stored?

    As for how long deleted posts/comments/accounts are stored for? i'm not entirely sure. i know that typically deleted posts are just flagged in the db as "deleted", but i think it also changes the content to deleted by creator or something, and i don't believe there's any way to get the original post/comment back? there's also a way for admin's to purge users/communities/posts/comments, which deletes them from the database, but i don't think there's anything that does that automatically after a certain time period.

    I know i have a lot of "i think"'s in there, so all of this is a best guess. I'll do some digging and testing at some point so I can firmly answer these questions.

    • Thanks! That's everything I'd hoped to get rolling and then some so clearly you have it well in hand.

      Really what I was aiming for was a recognition that we shouldn't have to guess about this stuff and it should be straightforwardly laid out. Of course that's rarely the case but I see Lemmy as a way to collaborate in building the sort of social media we want rather than what we're given as a byproduct of other's interests.

      Deletion on other instances isn't something we can control but we can point that out so people understand. And for our part we can understand what's happening on our systems, ensure it's in line with what we want (eg. if it isn't expunged you can add a cron job to do it after X days or w/e) and be transparent about it.

      I didn't expect that you'd go as far as not logging exact IPs at even the the HTTP level, I fear that you will have to walk that back a bit over time in order to use things like fail2ban and more sophisticated tools to quickly respond to abuse and DoS attempts. Alas time and time again has proven there are some people out there who just like to mess with stuff and we need to be proactively resilient against what's unfortunately inevitable. Similarly, there'll be more subtle stuff like it becomes obvious that some set of IPs has been used in mass creation of accounts for sockpuppets or LLM bots and it'd be useful to retain them for a bit so we'd have the option of going back and reviewing what they put out.

      i don’t think there’s any other PII that is stored?

      We have the option to give your our emails too, is that only visible to you?

      I know i have a lot of “i think”'s in there, so all of this is a best guess. I’ll do some digging and testing at some point so I can firmly answer these questions.

      See? Right person for the job. Holler if you need anything, I get a general sense there's a willingness to pitch in around here.

      • We have the option to give your our emails too, is that only visible to you?

        yes, that's only visible to me. 99% sure that it doesn't leave this instance.

        See? Right person for the job. Holler if you need anything, I get a general sense there’s a willingness to pitch in around here.

        agreed. everyone has been super supportive and helpful so far. i will let you know what i find, and will reach out if i need help with anything. thanks!

      • Ugh, yeah. I've been torn about ringing alarm bells to local admins about this as it is a thankless job for them and I'd hate to start scaring the core group facilitating adoption, but the other side is if this isn't resolved soon Lemmy is going to find a lot of instances having a bad time and disappearing.

        As mentioned in another comment, this really has to start as a policy framework adopted by the larger Lemmy community and modified to suit the conditions of the local. As you've highlighted, the whole federated / control of posts is not one that is easily grasped by the end user (or some admins elsewhere I've found). The argument that "everything you put on the internet is there forever" doesn't address that there is a huge distinction between a capture and a federated, distributed and indexed copy.

        I grew up in the wild-wild-west of the early internet and have made an informed decision on how to engage on this platform. It is very evident from the discussions I've seen across the Lemmy-verse that most are completely unaware.

        Although I often consult on such things, I am not a lawyer and hesitate to get too involved myself. However I too am available to sound ideas.

        Here are the current Lemmy issues I've found on the subject, if anyone has the capacity and desire to contribute to this issue, I'd start here. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/721 https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/issues/1347

  • As someone who sticks seeds in the ground and waits for rain, I enjoy the open discussion around balancing privacy/security/anti-spam bots. Although I may not understand all of it, this feels like a good discussion to have in the open. Big thumbs up from me, also is there a option to toss a coin to my Witcher(ie the person paying for back-up/server space). Due to the inconstancy of rain, money is tight but when I could spare a coffee for a stranger holding down the instance? Thanks again @smorks for your hard work.

  • It's important to be aware that in the case of posts; comments; votes, in federated space, and particularly with Lemmy, there are cases where your content will be hosted on other instances under your name without any way to edit/remove.

    For instance if Lemmy.ca got defederated from another instance you engaged with, copies will remain on the other instance, with your user name, and no way to remove/edit. Those instances may have very different policies. Or if Lemmy stopped hosting, all other federated copies remain.

    I do think it is important for local instances to eventually publish their own policies, but I think it is going to take a larger Lemmy wide initiative to develop a proper policy framework.

27 comments