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They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power. These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead. But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides. However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
Uhhhh no... Just no... Most Palestinian Americans don't want genicide to go the other way... And the people living in Palestinian don't have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless... How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it's obvious change is needed.
let alone the capability to do a genicide
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity. Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven't. Wiping out jews is the stated goal of Hamas in the 1988 charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial
"Hardly anybody died"
Israel could wipe out every single one of them if they wanted to. They haven’t.
When the genocides lie far in the past, denial is easier.
"It was self defense"
Genocide is exactly what Hamas would do if they did have the capacity.
The killing of civilians, especially able bodied males is rationalized in preemptive attack, as they are accused of plotting against the perpetrators. The perpetrator may exterminate witnesses and relatives of the victims.
I love that you lost to a felon and still engage in denialism, it's like you guys are unable to learn anything.
Don't get me wrong, Hamas are the worst of the "other" side but that's why we would fight them as well if the roles were reversed. But I won't want to achieve that goal by killing 40k innocent people. I'd be just as upset and angry. It's asking for no genicide regardless of who's the perpetrator or whos the victims?!
And also your argument is the equivalent to saying those being surprised by a stronger power can only fight back by conviction means? Or that the Palestinian people having negative views towards religious fundamentalist who are literally killing and starving their friends and family, forfeit their lives for said negative views? For example if you asked jews people in concentration camps during WWII if they had negative views towards German people, and taking their answer as a determining factor on if they live or die... Nazi Germany also called jews freedom fighters in occupied Poland terrorist. And some of those freedom fighters committed horrific crimes against German civilians... Was Nat Turner a freedom fighter or terrorist? Were native American raids on settlements built on their ancestors land righteous or terrorism?
Hamas wasn't created in a vaccum.
Despite the high number of civilian casualties, Israel is actually doing a better job at it that the US has with their skirmishes in the middle east. It's not like they're not trying to minimize the civilian casualties, Hamas just makes it really hard by using their population as human shields.
Also, if you look at the videos of Israeli civilian hostages dragged thru the streets of Gaza after the october 7 invasion, there's a good number of palestinian civilians cheering. Would the Israeli population be doing the same thing were IDF to drag raped Palestinian women thru the streets of Israel? I doubt it.
Hamas is a death cult. There's no negotiating with them. The only solution is their complete destruction and showing the world that these views will not be tolerated. It's the average muslim who suffers the most because of these religious extremists.
Me: Let's stop all genicide and oppression everywhere by whom ever.
You: ummm actually if we didn't genicide them, they'd genicide us...
Me: The fuck?!
You: and America's modern genicides and atrocities were much worse...
Me: The fuck is wrong with you!
Somehow every attempt to reason with people like you ends up to you getting pissed and ending the discussion.
I'm interested in real life solutions. Not fantasies. You can advocate for 'stopping genocide and oppression everywhere' all you want. Religious extremists like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis and ISIS couldn't care less about your wishes. Death for Isreal and death for America is what they want and they'll happily tell you this.
Just come out and say your pro genicide man. Stop hiding behind Hamas as the reason for the Palestinian peoples current situation. Like I don't even have to look far within Israeli government to find leaders openly saying, "Ya we are going to kill or expelle every Palestinian."
Just come out and day it. You think every Arab and Muslim is a religious extremist and are terrorists. Just stop hiding behind the idea that the millions of people mostly kids and women in Palestine are acceptable casualties as long as it's them and not us. Why aren't we offering asylum to all none Hamas extremist in Palestine so we can protect them as well? Just say you are pro genicide dude.
I feel bad for the Palestinians in Gaza of course. Not for their relatives in america who just helped put a fascist in power who will kill their relatives.
Anyone who didnt vote or voted for Stein is deserving of everything that will happen to them I hope their family in Palestine will cut them off because they have signed their life away.
Maybe you shouldn't have voted for a loser.
Luckily I am not american. So I didnt vote. However voting for a fascist will screw you as well as any other american
Americans are asleep at this hour I think
And what's your solution to those with legitimate hangups? Sit behind a keyboard and call them idiots? There was no downside to being 100% anti genicide. There is no downside to be for universal health care. There's no downside to making education 100% free. There's no downside to fighting for income redistribution.
What's your solution to these real fucking problems? Because the democrats never truly tried any of these or even advocated for them. It's been this way since the new deal. A slow decay to Jim crow, women's suffrage, and xenophobia. We need new tactics because what you and the Democrat leadership is saying and doing isn't fucking working!
There is no solution. Idiots will stay idiots. They obviously dont give af about democracy or the lifes of anyone else but themselves.
As long as these idiots are alive they will keep handing the reigns to fascists who do exactly what the idiots punish the dems for.
All we can hope for is that american burns down quickly without too much damage to anyone else. So this time maybe something decent can be built on the remains.
Lol okay then way are voting. Why are you commenting? Rather than being proactive with a problem solving mindset you are just going to continue to do things that obviously don't work? This isn't some unavailable catastrophic outcome. This happened because people prefer to rip each other down than trying to lift each other up. If you aren't fighting for marginalized people everywhere, why do you get mad when they respond with apathy or anger when you demand they support your ideals? Everyone is copable in this presidential outcome. No one group or person is 100% to blame. My 2020 vote for Biden has blood on it and that doesn't sit well with me. I make up for it by doing more than just voting and insulting people on the internet. That's how you gain votes. Not whatever you are doing. The DNC could have let Palestinian Americans speak, but they didn't. They could have had a more left platform, but they didn't. This centrists agenda has a 33% success rate over the past three elections and when democracy is at stake can you really be calus to your base? I have history and facts on my side.
What's the definition of insanity?
Nothing is going to work to get people who fell for fascism back. These marginalized groups are the ones who suffer the most under Trumps fascism but doing what they did they deserve it. They obviously want it since they didnt mind handing the country to Trump.
The trump voters, non voters and third party voters are 100% to blame.
The democrats could be less right wing, sure. I wish they were. But it wouldnt have changed anything. Fascists and their enablers will not change. They want to take away peoples and their own freedoms.
Your way of thinking is like an abusive husband's mindset.
lol Being against fascists and their enablers is abuse for you? That tells me all I need to know about you
No you chose to help a fascist get in power by voting for losers. Also considering both your candidates commited conspiracy to commit genocide, I would really shut up about moral high ground lmao
Especially when you are both-siding a massacre. You deserve trump lmao I hope they come for you
I am not american you idiot. They arent my candidated. Fact is that trump is much worse for Palestine. And non voters will realize this. I wont shed a tear for those americans crying because Trump turned Gaza into a mall. I will feel sad for the palestinians suffering from the actions of their idiot relatives in the US though
You are from an american vassal and mindlessly repeat their propaganda. I wanna bet you are british / commonwealth / german / euro.
Also fuck you for blaming genocide on non-voters. Harris sent weapons to commit genocide until now. You are blaming the victim and it's a disgusting behavior.
Looking at your history, it's clear you know a lot about disgusting behavior. You seem like an expert on it.
Ps this is 100% the fault of those who didn't vote. Kind of pathetic to argue otherwise. they could've voted to reduce harm but they'd rather watch trump accelerate the genocide, so this is fully on them/you.
PS no this is 100% the fault of those who didn't earn people's vote. Do you understand democracy? You vote for the people you want in power. If the people committed federal crime (like conspiracy to commit genocide), you do not vote for them, otherwise you are complicit.
Look baby you should redirect the rage toward your stupid country. I'm not the one who voted for extermination of foreigners.
You wanted to sacrifice foreigners so you can have peace. Good job, you get neither.
Sorry it's my fault for reading trump propaganda like (check notes) amnesty international.
Americans are to blame for the genocide. Americans had an election to pick between two genociders, one of them being the strawman and the other promising to only do genocide to foreigners.
You apparently have been spreading the idea that people should withhold their vote, thereby directly contributing to the slaughter, so I amend my statement: YOU are to blame regardless of your voting status. Laughable that I'd read articles you link.
Tbh, there’s a very dark part of me that makes me just want sit back, watch Gaza and the West Bank get fully reduced to rubble, and all the Palestinians getting put into woodchippers, and just smirk while saying “wow, good thing we dodged a Harris administration. Who knows what that would have meant for Palestine.”
Average american demorcat
However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead
You are inventing straw men. No one seriously expects this of Harris, and there is a lot of room between 'reverse genocide' and what the Biden/Harris admin did.
If you give in to the "Gimme what I want or I want fascism" crowd they will keep asking for more. Many are already demanding Israel to be dissolved. So fuck these people. I will not shed a tear for them when they cry because Trump flattened all of Gaza.
“Gimme what I want or I want fascism” crowd
That's america.
Fascism has a clear definition. Trump fullfills it. Are you one of these idiots who claimed Trump doesnt want to implement project 2025?
He totally is. And like all fascist, he was used as a strawman for democrats to prevent people to vote for the left. And once again, frankeinstein lost control of its creature.
The dude is a genocider, the fact he's allowed to run in the first place is a disgrace for america.
One more lmao
There is no left in america. Its useless pandering to them. There is only fascists, right wingers who are not fascist and enablers of fascism who didnt vote.
I would not have voted for a litteral genocider.
Whooeee, scratch a lib eh?
Foreign policy is so far from a motivating factor for this country, why can't you just accept that the democrats are a failure of a party? They went further and further right looking for the 'Liz Cheney vote' and lost the popular vote because of it.
I'm not a lib. I am left.
The dems made stupid shit. I said so. It doesnt remove the blame of the fascists voting for Trump and the fascist enablers not voting to prevent Trump
Die mad I guess, but again, foreign policy just doesn't effect elections. You're mad at the wrong people.
I am mad at the right people. Those who held the stirrups for fascism.
They didn't cause this loss, the failures of the democrats did. Go yell at your politicians for failing to properly fight against fascism.
They arent my politicians. Why do people keep saying this lol
I can yell at both. Those who dont run a good enough campaign to catch the idiots and the idiots who choose fascism
Are you in the US? That would make them your politicians right?
Okay are those the two groups you're yelling at? Because there are a ton more that didn't show up for her. Why do these folks seem to be such a focus?
They don't have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power.
Kamala Harris, the Democratic Presidential Nominee, lost. Because of her poor campaign tactics, she allowed a fascist to get into power. Are you equally upset with her for not doing what it takes to stop fascism?
If not, why was the "right answer" for this election to support Israel when we know that she lost following that tactic, and not supporting Palestine?
Obviously I am upset with Harris and her campaign. Since she became the candidate I have been critiquing her.
The right answer is not allowing a fascist to be elected. Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris. Any pro Palestine voter with a brain would see that Harris is better for them.
Now they deserve everything Trump will do to them.
Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris.
So the key to beating fascism in your mind was to platform the same policies, but a little less? What do you actually think Harris should have done differently that would have helped her win the election? Because clearly, doing the same thing but slightly less bad didn't work this time.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism. Nothing Harris could have done would have changed anything. American voters and non voters want fascism more than a female president.
I called it 4 mths ago. Putting her up was a mistake. They either needed to stay with Biden or better yet, have him not run again and pick a white man as candidate.
Even then it would have been hard with so many people choosing fascism and choosing not to prevent fascism.
The key to defeat fascism is not voting for fascism.
Are you implying Harris was also fascist, or are you just complaining that not enough people voted for her? If it's the first, then fine. But if it's the second, what do you think Harris could have done to earn more votes?
Or are you saying that racism and misogyny in the US is just that much stronger than our anti-fascist beliefs? That there's no amount of good policy and campaign promises that a woman could give that would ever be enough to beat fascism?
Every person who did not vote for Harris chose fascism.