Is Lemmy more likely to succeed than Voat? Why or why not?
Is Lemmy more likely to succeed than Voat? Why or why not?
I don't remember what caused the Voat's origin, except it involved Reddit HQ. And then it went under in 2020.
What's different about this time and with Lemmy to make it a feasible alternative to Reddit? Is it random chance?
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Lemmy is a very different conceptually than Voat. A major difference is it's not just a single website, of course, it's open source software that anyone can download and install, which makes it very resilient. The federation aspect is clever too, making it much more than if it was just a bunch of different, disconnected websites running a version of Lemmy.
Voat's goal of being specific to a certain political ideology naturally limited it, too. It doesn't seem that conservative ideology is particularly popular among whatever demographic reddit serves, based on the distribution of subs and comments. Maybe I'm wrong and conservatives just avoid reddit because they view it as a liberal/left site, idk.
Plus, as others have noted Voat was toxic from the start, being composed mainly of people from communities that were kicked off Reddit for breaking rules about hate speech and violence. That's a very shaky foundation, obviously. Lemmy has recently gained tons of users of course, primarily people who ditched reddit because it sucks, not were ditched by reddit for sucking. Huge difference there too.
Lemmy has recently gained tons of users of course, primarily people who ditched reddit because it sucks, not were ditched by reddit for sucking. Huge difference there too.
That distinction is huge. Voat also became the haven for jailbait, fatpeoplehate, and other notorious communities.
I was thinking, didn't I try a reddit alternative a while back? Yep, it was Voat. Looked around a bit over a couple days, not much content and the vast majority very questionable. Never went back, let alone signed up.
It doesn’t seem that conservative ideology is particularly popular among whatever demographic reddit serves, based on the distribution of subs and comments.
At one point reddit was a very diverse community.
After one of the migrations to the site, some of the new users couldn't tolerate the idea that there were extremists hiding in certain dark corners of reddit. Those users started finding those subs and doing things like taking a screenshot of an ad next to a post that company would never support and spreading it around the internet. It didn't take long after that until reddit started cleaning out those dark corners.
I've been on reddit since about 2008. My experience was that it's was very left/liberal, drawing users mainly from university students. There have always been people posting content that made it like 4chan lite, but not political talk. As best I recall I first saw anyone there identify politically conservative around 2014 and it seemed surprising.
I guess, I don't really remember the political atmosphere from when I created my account around 2013 or so.
My brother had been trying to convince me to create an account for some time, but it wasn't until I realized that there was a lot more to the site than cat pictures that I got around to doing it. Once I got rid of most of the default subs, I thoroughly enjoyed it for several years.
I remember it mostly the way you do. It certainly wasn't conservative in any sense of the word. Socially,
/r/atheismwas a default sub, most of the user base was LGBT friendly, and pornography was allowed. Economically, universal healthcare and the OWS protests were supported.There was a libertarian-minded free-speech-absolutist streak, which is why things like
/r/jailbaitand/r/watchpeoplediewere allowed. Some people like to blame the elimination of that type of stuff on "intolerant leftists" but in my estimation the real culprit there was the media catching wind and advertisers not wanting to advertise on sites with that sort of content.In my opinion, Reddit became far more hostile to conservatives when
/r/the_donaldtook off. That may be more a sign of the times than anything particular about Reddit; political engagement in general was rising during that time. But also most users didn't really appreciate the way that sub manipulated Reddit's algorithms, or being called "cuck" in their hobby subs.Yeah, the questionable porn and gore are what resembled 4chan Lite. There wasn't much hate speech, racism or non-liberal political talk though back then. I think reddit realized that having prominent subs posting photos of 14 year old girls wasn't something they wanted to be in their public image at all, which was probably a good move.
I don't feel like reddit became hostile to conservatives as much as conservatives who were hostile showed up, which of course made people not like them. It was also a time when political attitudes and discourse in general in the US was growing more contentious and less civil. The 'cuck' crap, the "liberal tears!!" type attitudes, death threats, arrogance and harassing people showed up when 'the donald' went big around 2016-17. Not really different than Facebook or IG in that respect - I finally quit Facebook entirely around 2017 because i was sick of having contentious politics in my face non-stop. I'm not sure if /r/conservative even existed before ~2015. Also strangely /r/conspiracy turned from a place to discuss MK-ULTRA and UFOs to a place where people talked anti-Democratic Party politics non-stop. Personally I feel like a lot of it was organized astroturf, not even necessarily from inside the US.
I think reddit realized that having prominent subs posting photos of 14 year old girls wasn’t something they wanted to be in their public image at all
It's basically a non-starter; all "free speech absolutist" websites are. I think Moot said that 4chan didn't make any money because they were radioactive to advertisers. Voat died because they couldn't attract advertisers. The remaining right-wing social media sites are all running at a loss as far as anyone can determine.
I don’t feel like reddit became hostile to conservatives as much as conservatives who were hostile showed up
Maybe a bad choice of words on my part. I 100% agree that conservatives basically invaded the site during the leadup to the 2016 election and proceeded to harass the existing user base until the admins were forced to step in. Even then the admins did the minimum they possibly could and slow-walked everything. Conservatives got every opportunity to course-correct and basically refused.
A lot of Reddit is hostile to conservatives now and they definitely earned that ire.
I’m not sure if /r/conservative even existed before ~2015.
That sub was created Jan 25, 2008. Interestingly enough, it seems
/r/christianitywas created at the same time. I don't remember anyone being aware of either sub - much less caring about them - prior to/r/the_donald. Reddit was pretty fine with conservative subs before they started showing up in everybody's gaming and knitting subs calling everybody cucks and baby murderers.Personally I feel like a lot of it was organized astroturf, not even necessarily from inside the US.
Everything about the genesis of
/r/the_donaldfeels like organized to me. That shit came out of nowhere. If I had to guess, it's something similar to Steve Bannon's strategy to target gamers and the gamergate fiasco.
Free speech is not always pretty.
@[email protected] wrote:
being composed mainly of people from communities that were kicked off Reddit for breaking rules about hate speech and violence
Few people know that Lemmy was also created by people kicked off from Reddit for breaking rules on hate speech and violence. And racism.
Yet, indeed. The ability for you to set up a website for just about anything and have all the communities you like, is super cool. And it will clearly give Lemmy an upper hand in this.
The nice thing about this system is unlike a single website, we don't have to worry about specific individuals in the same way. I can picture Lemmy ending up with 2-3 major networks and several smaller ones that operate as independent entities.