National and ACT reaffirm plans to cancel Clean Car Discount
National and ACT reaffirm plans to cancel Clean Car Discount
National and ACT have both reaffirmed their previously announced plans to cancel the Clean Car Discount, a decision highlighted during a political debate last night. This announcement took place at the Motor Trade Association’s political debate, which was held online in Wellington. Moderated by TV p...
I'm curious to know what others think of this.
I'm personally for keeping it as I see the benefit coming in a few years having many more EV's available in the second hand market. Currently it's pretty much dominated by mainly Nissan Leaf's at the lower end of the secondhand market.
I know of a few people as well who have bought EV/Hybrids recently that would not have even considered going for EV's or even hybrids without the rebate.
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I think the focus on cars is a bigger problem than what energy source they use. EVs are taking over anyway, there is no standing in the way of that.
If we want to reduce emissions (pollution isn't much of a problem in windswept NZ) then we need to focus on more efficient modes of transport and lifestyles. Not more cars.
We will still be able to import used EVs from Japan, if converting our domestic fleet is a goal.
I think the focus on cars is a bigger problem than what energy source they use. EVs are taking over anyway, there is no standing in the way of that.
If there was an alternative that isn't likely to take multiple generations to implement, I would agree, but that is not the case?
If we want to reduce emissions (pollution isn’t much of a problem in windswept NZ) then we need to focus on more efficient modes of transport and lifestyles. Not more cars.
I suspect your definition of pollution doesn't match what most consider it to be. NZ is a terrible polluter of the environment, which includes green house gases (transport and agriculture) and the effects that has on climate change? I don't think the idea is to have more cars, but to replace existing polluting cars with more environmentally friendly EV's?
Sure, pollution in that narrow sense is about direct health effects, and is kind of a side issue. What I've noticed is that some critics of this move to EVs see things in a different light. Take car designers Gordon Murray and Adrian Newey, both scathing about the way this is playing out. What we are getting to replace our ICE vehicles is not a new wave of efficient EVs. Everyone is gravitating to SUV EVs which are hideoisly inefficient. It's like the McMansion-isation of personal transport.
IF the goal is to reduce total emissions we are going about it the wrong way. We should be tax-encouraging K-cars (EV) and other micro-transport options. Instead it has turned into another consumerism feeding frenzy. We are ending up with more, not less.
Everyone is gravitating to SUV EVs which are hideoisly inefficient. It’s like the McMansion-isation of personal transport.
That's because everyone prefers SUVs period. Ask any car dealer how the sedans and the wagons are selling. Hell some manufacturers have even stopped selling them. For example Honda no longer sells Accords in NZ and they don't even make a wagon anymore. Go look at the toyota web site and you'll see no mention of prius.
Everyone is gravitating to SUV EVs which are hideoisly inefficient. It’s like the McMansion-isation of personal transport.
I've heard this more than once recently - what a lot of rot. A medium size electric SUV is no more inefficient than a medium size electric car. It may carry a little more weight around and have a little more wind resistance, so may require/use a little more stored electricity, but not much. If the owner actually needs the extra space or clearance of an SUV (I do, but diesel at the moment not yet electric, mostly due to range issues), then I don't see anything wrong with that.
However, I do agree when it comes to those who buy and drive SUV/Utes etc., just for the Wank factor - I always suspect it is something to do with small penis syndrome ;)
Yean but I'm not comparing it to some other existing vehicle. We apparently want to get our emissions down? Smaller vehicles. Less road miles. The current pattern of switching to EVs does something. It also continues existing behaviour. I think it is an attractive option for many people. "Buy a new car and get to feel good on multiple fronts". In terms of addressing the root of our problems it does very little.
I think I get where you are coming from, but what are the alternatives? Most alternatives like electric public transport that allows commuters to travel into cities to work requires that intergenerational investment that, in NZ, just doesn't seem to happen. Or are you suggesting working from home (which some jobs can't do), or just a much simpler life in general (I'm pretty much there now). Or perhaps where consumerism ends, international trade ends, international travel ends etc., tourists disappear etc. I'm all in, but it simply is not going to happen until the water level rises, the temperature reaches extremes and the effects are actually felt by people first hand. It is the nature of humans, unfortunately?
Alternatives aside for the moment, what we currently have seems to be populist governments dishing out subsidies to private vehicle owners (free roads, free parking, free money for EVs). It seems to work in terms of getting elected. Yet it incentivises people to live far away from their places of interest - work, school, family and friends, and drive everywhere to make up for that.
Maybe a combination of tech will allow us to properly price things like traffic, parking, resource use. Then we may find that suburbia is less sensible economically, or that more living and working is moved out to where people are housed.
Yes, a simpler life in general. Less powerful, more connected.
Looking at what EV's have been popular in China over the last couple of years:
2-3 years ago the most popular EV was the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV:
This year it's the BYD Song Plus:
The Wuling is still in the top five, but so are Tesla. Seems like SUV's are what people want - how could you change peoples minds? Perhaps offer larger rebates on smaller EV's? Or, tax luxury (SUV) EV's? Have to get rid of those oil burners first though!?
You are right, it's what people want.
The way to incentivise smaller vehicles (and less private vehicle travel generally) is through RUC and congestion charges. If we paid for road usage based on weight/footprint the demand for bigger cars wouldn't be so high.
If we had price rationing at peak times (commute, school run etc.) then people would be incentivised to pool, use alternatives, etc.
The emissions from building more roads and parking spaces is non-trivial too.
I get the angle you're coming from, as someone who was bemoaning the lack of availability of small non-SUV EV's in another forum. However when I think about it, it does make sense from the carmakers point of view. The rise in popularity of crossovers and small SUVs didn't start with EVs but was already there from ICE cars. So making EVs to suit the most popular category that they sell is likely a smart move for actually selling EVs.
I guess we could argue about how much responsibility they have for driving that demand or changing the attitudes of their buyers. We'll eventually get there I think, but we can see already it takes a long time to change the general public's perceptions on climate change as it is, let alone getting them to consider smaller vehicles or make lifestyle changes
Wagons are more practical than SUVs, People carriers are more practical than seven seater SUVs.
If there was an alternative that isn't likely to take multiple generations to implement, I would agree, but that is not the case?
This isn't an either or, we're causing a climate emergency that's going to last far longer than multiple generations. We need to be doing everything, as soon as possible.
I agree that our cities and towns are too car centric, it seems very unlikely that we will get sweeping changes to our public transportation or redesigning of cities to be more pedestrian/bike friendly any time soon. The general public seems to be against any large changes to the current way of life and neither major party seems brave enough to do it.
While personal zero emission vehicles contribute a tiny fraction to lowering our emissions, I think incentivizing their uptake is still a good idea. I'm a fan of the Japanese Kaizen concept of incremental continuous improvement that involves everyone. Working on lowering emissions on all fronts is ideal, but as always with politics they can only do so much at a time without upsetting voters.