Ahead of Chair Vote, Progressives Say DNC 'Failing Disastrously' to Learn From Loss to Trump
Ahead of Chair Vote, Progressives Say DNC 'Failing Disastrously' to Learn From Loss to Trump
"Voters—and all Americans—deserve better than two corporate-controlled parties," asserted the leader of Our Revolution.
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Even this analysis doesn't capture the real problem.
Asserting that the DNC "fails to learn" implies that they have some goal they're not meeting.
They don't.
Their goal is to rake in as much corporate soft money as possible, and by that standard, this past election was a resounding success. And nothing else, including winning elections, matters to them.
So they're not really "failing" at anything. In fact they're succeeding nicely. It's just that they're succeeding at being corrupt, self-serving and deceitful.
If progressives know how to win elections better than the DNC then why don’t they just win enough elections to control the DNC?
This implies a fair primary process.
To extend a bit, the DNC controls the machine to run elections. They are friends with the corporate donors and the "left wing" media. Without their support it's very hard to brand yourself as a full blown democrat candidate, which eventually will matter to the voting public.
How did any progressives get elected if our primaries are unfair?
How do progressives win against the GOP when they don’t play fair?
How did any progressives get elected if our primaries are unfair?
They got elected despite the party's interference.
How do progressives win against the GOP when they don’t play fair?
The GOP doesn't control national elections like the DNC/DCCC/DSCC controls primaries.
Multiple progressives lost their primaries recently and blame AIPAC funding. Criticizing democrats for catering to donors. While losing to democrats because they catered to donors.
All while claiming they can win elections better than democrats.
The GOP will also be catering to donors.
I was talking about the way the party runs (or eschews) its primaries. You pivoted to international donors.
I’m talking about winning and losing primaries. You’re cherry picking examples.
This is what you initially responded to:
This implies a fair primary process.
You're putting words in my mouth in order to change the subject to one you're more comfortable with. In this case, the subject you're more comfortable with is gloating that AIPAC bought you some pro-genocide primary challengers.
If progressives know how to win elections better than the DNC then why don’t they just win enough elections to control the DNC?
This is my comment that preceded your quote.
The subject is: “why do progressives think they know how to win elections better than the DNC if they have never done so?”
Yes, money is power and power is politics. What is your point exactly?
Progressives will continue to lose for this reason.
Clearly the solution is just to sell out as hard as possible since there's no other way to win.
I’m not saying what is good/bad. I’m saying what wins/loses. You can be good and lose in the case of progressives. But then you can’t claim you know how to win better than the DNC.
I’m saying what wins/loses.
Well, it's a good thing we ran so fucking far to the right, then. Can you imagine if Harris had listened to progressives? She might have lost the primary we didn't fucking have.
She lost to Trump because she did what you wanted. Don't worry. The party will never fucking change.
Progressives will continue to lose until they give up their morals and descend into the muck of incompetence and greed like us fine fellows, and take the big money dick that is being offered. You'd be stupid to try any other way of winning.
I am very smart.
Progressives will continue to lose because they think they don’t need to work with ideologies other than their own in a country where progressives are a small fraction of the population.
‘Don’t try to appeal to moderate voters! Why can’t we win elections?!’
‘Don’t compromise with republicans to get the votes needed to pass legislation! Why can’t we get legislation passed?!’
‘Is is us progressives that are to blame for our lack of progress? No it is the voters that are wrong!’
‘We are very smart’
If the strategy of compromising with the right, appealing to moderate voters, and sucking up to corporate donors is so effective, why did it fail miserably at stopping the fall to fascism? Are you of the same mind as the Democratic leadership, that Kamala Harris ran a perfect campaign?
You're making the same mistake that right-wingers make, blaming the powerless for the actions of the powerful.
It is unironically the voters' faults if things go to shit in a democracy yes. It sucks that we have bad education but nobody is stopping people from paying attention.
The point of progressives is they don't support regressive policies
Appealing to oligarchs and embracing the Feudal system kind of goes against their core tenants
According to leftists, control of corporate donors and the media makes the DNC extremely strong. But simultaneously, the DNC is extremely weak.
control of corporate donors and the media makes the DNC extremely strong
You seem to be a bad listener, because you got it backwards. The DNC doesn't have control over corporate donors and the media, corporate donors and the media have control over the DNC. They're not actually weak, their supposed incompetence is a choice. They're not actually incapable of winning elections and passing good policy that helps the people, they're unwilling. The interests of the Democratic leadership and the interests of the people are misaligned, and they only appear weak because they misrepresent their values and goals.
Ok, so if leftists can't win a primary because they have no support from donors and media, then how are they supposed to win a general election?
The only answer is mass movements. If you can't beat them with money you have to beat them with numbers. We have to continue the slow process of building dual power from the bottom up by engaging in mutual aid and taking into our own hands what the Democrats refuse to.
Money is power in this country, but at its core it's only an abstraction of labor power. Unions can win elections and even run their own social programs if only more people choose to fight. Existing unions need to radicalize and more radical unions need to form.
If mass movements can win a general election then they can win a primary.
Conversely, if leftists aren't yet winning primaries with mass movements, then they can't yet win general elections.
The left is in a slump right now and has been for some time. Decades of repression have been successful in preventing mass movements (ones that challenge the status quo, at least) before they start. We can break through, but it will take a lot more people realizing that they can't achieve their political objectives by working within the system, and then overcoming their apathy and hopelessness enough to take collective action.
A lot of people are stuck in the apathy and hopelessness stage right now, but I see rising revolutionary potential. More people are waking up, and the mass movement that finally breaks the siege may be on the horizon. Don't give up hope.
Well, that much is true.
What makes you think that I'd be interested in defending a claim I didn't make?
What makes you think I wanted to know if you’re interested in defending a claim?
Actually, that was a rhetorical question
And amusingly enough, you provided an additional illustration of the real answer.
Partly because of constant sabotage from within their own party.
https://newrepublic.com/article/189500/pelosi-aoc-oversight-committee-democrats
Fetterman ran as progressive and ended up being republican after getting elected.
Sinema ran as progressive and ended up being republican after getting elected.
What you’re referring to isn’t sabotage, it’s democrats trying to vet candidates because progressives don’t.
Sure. Like anyone at all believes AOC or Bernie is going to flip to R.
After I replied to you I read the rest of the discussion and saw how absolutely willing you are to be a jerk about it, and how absolutely unwilling you were to consider any other point of view, so you actually needn't have replied, and had I seen that first I would not have commented.
After I replied to you I read the rest of the discussion and saw how absolutely willing you are to be a jerk about it, and how absolutely unwilling you were to consider any other point of view
How was I being a jerk? By not repeating the echos in this echo chamber?
What point was I not willing to consider and how did you prove I didn’t consider it? Or did you not prove what I considered, and made up that lie because I’m not repeating echos in an echo chamber?
If you’re only willing to comment to people that will circle jerk with you then you should assess your bias.
The goal of leftists is to complain and by that standard, this past election was a resounding success. And nothing else, including winning elections, matters to them.
*the goal of American Democrats.
The Democrats aren't even leftist anymore
Exactly.
The goal of Democrats is to win elections. Democrats aren't leftists.
The goal of leftists is to complain. Leftists don't want to win elections.
Sounds like YOU want to complain.
The OP is not about me.