Is there any non-zero possibility Musk was not doing a Hitler Salute?
Is there any non-zero possibility Musk was not doing a Hitler Salute?
Musk:
-supposedly has autism
-autistic people sometimes make weird faux paus
To me, it looks like it's clearly a Hitler salute and the logical conclusion is he's a white supremacist. But I am just wondering if everyone else sees this that way with no room for it being a result of autism and definitely that.
Is there any possibility it could have been accidental? Or was he doing a Hitler salute, then "oh it was an accident" (wink) sort of thing? Did he apologize?
Lots of people on lemmy are really smart so I'm interested to read what people think.
The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable with buying from companies that have x profiles. I just don't see how that coukd be accidental and it seems like no one cares.
There was this period before WWII when stuff started happening to reduce the rights of minorities, but they weren't being killed blatantly. Is this where we are? I feel more scared to be in America now.
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Honestly, I'm not entirely convinced it was a Nazi salute. I think, given how stupid and akward he is, and the fact that the salute was so off-angle, it could have actually been an akward "my heart goes out to you" gesture.
That said, focusing on this possible red flag is stupid and honestly makes light of the situation, when looking at Elon Musk's history and past statements is like standing in the Red Square on parade day. The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize. I guess its good that people are finally putting their foot down, but the appropriate time was a decade ago at least.
No way he didn't know what het was doing. He hesitates before he does it the first time, then when he get's a positive reaction he does it the second time. This was deliberate and from what I can see many people in the the US are underreacting to it big time.
To me, that hesitation seemed more like a pause at the end of a paragraph, and the second salute, if it was so, less confident than the first (esspecially given that he bent his arm the second time). I'm not confident it wasn't an intentional Nazi salute, but I'm also not confident it was, which is why I err on the side of caution. I believe we should assume innocence unless guilt can be proven.
That said, this is why I felt the need to include the second paragraph. We shouldn't be focused on the time Elon did something wrong with plausible deniability nor should we be particularly concerned that others aren't more upset. Our focus should instead be on the fact that he has made numerous statements and taken actions that support racism, sexism, classism, misinformation and conspiracy theories, ect. and supported others who represent these values. Our fury should be at the people who ignored these far more direct and unambiguous statements, and have continued to ignore them for over a decade.
Let me ask you something: what kind of person makes that kind of obvious faux pas on the stage at the inauguration of the President of the United States of America then doesn't try to clarify or correct people who say it was a Nazi salute?
Any normal person would be mortified, and tripping over themselves to explain themselves or apologize. I would say that his actions (or more accurately, inaction) after the gesture cements it for me that there is zero point zero percent possibility that this was not intentional.
You are a fool if you believe otherwise.
A refusal to apologize doesn't mean it was intentional originally, esspecially when trying to appeal to his Nazi friends. Elon Musk is deep enough in the far right that he knows how to do a roman salue (IE not sideways and not with a bent arm).
This is overly charitable given his strong and consistent support of the extreme right
Failing to see it is dangerously naive at best
The fact that he is openly a nazi-supporting white supremist is the only reason I say I'm not confident it was an accident.
But again, my whole second paragraph: Why does it matter if it was a roman salute or not? Why do we need to point to this specifically? We knew he was a Nazi before this and had clearer proof to point to then, and since then, he has not changed at all and continues to provide clearer proof. If doing a iffy, off-angle roman salute is what worries you and not the racism, sexism, homophobia, misinformation, lack of respect for human rights or justice, ect. then I think you're misunderstanding why Nazis are bad.
There are people who realised musk is awful many years ago, and there are people who will keep cheering even if there are tesla branded concentration camps, and people all along the gradient between.
The reason it's useful to call out the apparent nazi salute is that some additional people might now notice that perhaps that musk guy isn't great. They didn't notice the twitter stuff, or the trump support or all the other things, but this is pretty obvious.
The idea that we should just go "well, we already knew he was a nazi supporter, no need to comment when he does an apparent nazi salute on the inauguration of the president he bought" is pretty silly
The reason it matters is because if you use faulty evidence (or in this case, questionable evidence) to try and sway someone, it just makes you look untrustworthy as Elon claims everyone who criticizes him is, and risks entrenching them against you. If you're making statements with complete certainty, you need to have near-unassailable evidence.
The idea that we should just go "well, we already knew he was a nazi supporter, no need to comment when he does an apparent nazi salute on the inauguration of the president he bought" is pretty silly
The point isn't to ignore it. The point is be honest to the truth, including any uncertainty. Jumping to conclusions or acting like you're certain when you're not only serves to weaken your position. If you're trying to prove Elon is a Nazi, you should point to all the statements in support of Nazi ideology and his complete refusal to condem it even when relevant, rather than something that could just be regular stupidity.
You have a point in that, in the general case, accuracy and evidence is good.
In this specific case, I think it's obviously a nazi salute and whether that is "just to trigger the libs" or not in the heart of Musk simply does not matter.
Making a nazi salute several times while on scene for an extreme right party isn't regular stupidity. We don't need different boxes for "consistent supporter in word and action of extreme right wing white power etc things who likes using nazi imagery and dogwhistles, but who possibly wouldn't really call themselves a nazi" and "actually technically subscribes to the entirety legacy nazi party's old agenda". They both fit in the nazi box
Any normal (read: not a fascist piece of trash) person who mistakenly made that kind of gesture would be mortified and would be tripping over themselves to clarify/correct/apologize.
Read my comment.
The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize.