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Russians damaged over 60% of Kyiv's heat and power networks last winter

www.pravda.com.ua Russians damaged over 60% of Kyiv�s heat and power networks last winter

As a result of Russian missile strikes last winter, about 63% of the equipment necessary for the stable passage through the autumn-winter heating period was seriously damaged.

Russians damaged over 60% of Kyiv�s heat and power networks last winter

As a result of Russian missile strikes last winter, about 63% of the equipment necessary for the stable passage through the autumn-winter heating period was seriously damaged.

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  • I hope Ukranians stay warm this year.

    • Well, on one hand, they're starting with some of the stuff already damaged.

      On the other hand, Russia consumed a lot of their missiles, and their frequency of use isn't what it was. Ukraine has a bunch of new air defense systems. And a lot of small diesel generators went out last winter, and they'll be in place already this time.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-12/generators-help-shops-keep-lights-on-for-ukrainians-hit-by-war

      https://archive.ph/Be1pm

      On Kyiv’s bustling main shopping avenues, the roar of diesel generators is a symbol of how Ukrainians are adapting to war.

      After months of blackouts caused by Russian attacks against the country’s energy infrastructure, everyone from mom-and-pop companies to international retailers are keeping the lights on with machines chugging away on sidewalks and cables snaking indoors.

      Inside, businesses keep Ukrainians who have no power at home warm and online with tables for students to work on laptops, power banks for charging devices, and space heaters to fight off the winter chill.

      While shoppers had to trudge up and down dormant escalators and use their mobile phones flashlights to read labels when the attacks started, half of food retail chains are operating normally, and that could rise to 70% by end-February, according to Andrii Zhuk, the chairman of the Retail Association of Ukraine.

      Ukraine imported more than half a million generators in 2022, Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said.

      Hmm. It sounds like people are using generators to drive (presumably resistance) space heaters. That's not actually efficient.

      googles

      Yeah:

      https://www.ugov.net/Generator%20Efficiencies.pdf

      That looks like you're getting maybe 20%, 25% efficiency from conversion to electricity on a portable diesel generator. A resistance heater will be 100% efficient (well, absent any losses in the wire) at converting that 20% or 25% back into heat, but that's still enormous loss. You could get way more heat out of that diesel.

      It's possible to rig up a reverse-flow heat exchanger off generator exhausts to run a heater, akin to what a car heater does. I don't know about the cost-effectiveness -- and you want to be pretty careful not to have leaks and blow the exhaust into stores -- but given that it sounds like these are mostly being run in winter, you can get more out of a given unit of diesel than just the electricity. 'course, then your store heats up when your electrical load increases, unless you have something to dynamically divert intake based on a thermostat. But it'll be a lot more efficient, because you're keeping your waste heat.

      Another option is something like this:

      https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-5KW-12V-Thermostat-Motor-home/dp/B09G9LJDKZ/

      That looks like it needs a small amount of electrical power to run, so one still needs the diesel generator active or to have some other source of power, but the generator can at least be be throttled down, reduce its own fuel consumption, because it's not running full-bore to drive resistance space heaters.

      You'll get something like 100% efficiency out of the diesel burned in that thing. That's gonna pay for itself in a lot less than a winter in comparison to running a generator driving a resistance heater (like, you're only buying 20% as much diesel).

      That's a small one, intended for an RV or something like that. I would guess that a store, unless it's a small one, would probably want something bigger.

      • @lusterko, @Ulara, you guys are in Ukraine, right? You know if people there are frequently running electrical resistance heaters driven off diesel generators, see it around the place? Resistance heaters will be the things that you plug in and have heating elements that get hot and glow. They're usually little freestanding things, run maybe $15-$80 for smallish ones here in the US. The whole unit will be indoors, unlike the electrical alternative heating approach, heat pumps.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_heating

        "Infrared radiant heaters", "convection heaters", "fan heaters" and the like shown there are all resistance heaters.

        I feel like if that's a widespread thing, I should try to get word to someone in Ukraine in a position to maybe do something about that, if it hasn't been tried yet, because switching a number of people to portable diesel heaters could substantially improve the heating situation this winter. Not sure who would deal with that.

        rubs chin

        I saw some site run by a Scottish charity that had people putting together thermally-insulating replacements for windows that were shattered from explosions out of plastic wrap and PVC pipe, and so I figure that those guys are probably at least familiar with the heating situation or who to talk to -- at least, they're the only English-language source related to Ukrainian heating I've seen.

        EDIT: Well, no, it won't be 100% efficient. They gotta dump the exhaust outside, not like a methane ventless heater, so there's a heat exchanger somewhere in there, so that's gonna probably gonna pull something like 70% to 90% efficiency, if it's a reverse-flow heat exchanger, going from memory. Still a major improvement.

        googles

        https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/23432/maximum-efficiency-for-a-counter-current-heat-exchanger-double-flux-controlled

        It's called either MVHR (Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery) or HRV (Heat-recovery ventilation), depending on where you are in the world.

        It possible to get a heat-exchange efficiency of between 90% and 100%, and there are several units on the market that achieve this.

        They're talking about HVAC, so that's gonna be an air heat exchanger. Wouldn't be surprised if the heat exchanger in this little heater doesn't achieve that, though.

        • I can't be too helpful in this question as I haven't been home for past 5-6 years. My friends and parents used fireplaces and electric heaters. But they are all in the western part of Ukraine that wasn't affected too much last winter.
          I'll be able to ask people from central parts of Ukraine a bit later.

          • Thanks. Don't go to too much effort; it probably isn't that hard for me to go drop a note to someone in the appropriate office of the Ukrainian government, and the only thing this would do is maybe save me the time of tracking them down and them the time of reading it. Just thought that if you were in a position to know off-the-cuff, that might be handy.

        • Thank you for your kind care.
          Here in the very heart of Ukraine, I sometimes saw such arrangements near small outdoor businesses (mostly fast food). Otherwise, people in cities mostly rely on central heating. It survived throughout the last winter, and hopefully, it will survive this one. As for the diesel generators, they are too dangerous to install in individual apartments of large buildings. And in the countryside, people mostly have wood stoves to rely upon.

          Last winter, we were near a big trouble: had the Ruscists caused a long blackout, cities would have to drain the central heating so that the water won't freeze in radiators. Had this happened, millions of people would be left without heating in minus 20°C cold. People would have to evacuate en masse. That's the main danger in the upcoming winter.

          Have I answered your inquiry?

          • Hmm. Yeah, thanks. Well, it sounds like they aren't widely used in a residential context -- hadn't thought about the fact that they'd be hard to use in multiunit housing, so I'll probably hold off then. The article did talk only about use by shops.

            I did already contact the Scottish charity I mentioned, so if they recommend someone in Ukraine involved with dealing with heating in the aftermath of attacks, I'll mention it to them, but probably won't pursue it otherwise.

        • Sorry, @Ulara ; had the wrong Ulara above.

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