Why lemmy.world should not defederate from beehaw.org.
Why lemmy.world should not defederate from beehaw.org.
What defederating would mean:
- We won't see beehaw.org posts/comments on other instances.
Pros:
- There is less confusion, you can't respond to a beehaw.org user, thinking they will be able to see your response when in reality they cannot.
Cons:
- We won't be able to see any beehaw.org comments/posts on other instances, so we will miss out on some comment threads and posts. It could be good to be able to see them and interact with the other users there even though beehaw.org users won't see any of our content.
Summary
Overall, I think it is better not to defederate, but simply unsubscribe from all of their communities (and as we no longer get posts from their instance, with time these will cease to appear on our 'front page').
beehaw.org users already can't see our posts/comments anywhere so it's not like defederating would change their experience in any way, so it wouldn't really be retaliation and would just limit the content available to lemmy.world users.
What do you think?
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I still don't understand the decision beehaw made
They circled their wagons due a perceived threat to a small population of their user base, of which they feel is their responsibility to protect.
I constantly shit on Beehaw, however I can't blame them for this. There is a huge influx of random people joining all these federated sites and high potential for pieces of shit coming in to troll sensitive individuals.
Now im sitting here wondering if I offended anyone over there lol. It's hard to imagine, but since I've seen no bad actors myself, I'm starting to think that it's possible I did, unknowingly, with zero intent to do so, and they just have a really strict thing going on. I doubt it's the case, or I hope not at least.
It isn't the case.
The first problem was actual trolls using were using lemmy.world's open and automated registration (beehaw makes you write why you want to join and manually approves registrations based on that) to troll Beehaw.
The second problem was that the moderation tools aren't mature enough yet to deal with problem one with anything between manually banning every troll (which will immediately come back by creating another lemmy.world account) and total defederation from the instances most of those trolls are coming from.
Because Beehaw's mission statement is to be a safe space, it was decided to go with the defederation option.
However, the defederation isn't planned to be permanent. Improvements in mod tools and/or maturing of communities are said to be reasons to refederate again.
Edit: spelling
Thanks for the info. I can see the logic on their part.
No it wasn't you. There were a couple of accounts that went in and spammed a whole bunch of bigoted posts.
Ahh whew. Lol. Ya that's messed up. 😕
Doubtful you offended anyone. I think beehaw was seeing serious things like child porn and anti-LGBT posts, and traced them back to lemmy.world or the other one.
OK thanks for reassuring me, I know people are pretty sensitive anymore, and I'm out of the loop ftmp on PC culture, and while I'm extremely progressive in every facet of my life, I still worry...but I think that's just a me problem tbh.
That's I feel after every message I send online ever :)
Yea I got in the habit of ignoring my inbox on reddit due to anxiety.
I am making an effort to be mindful, and honest, and I've been checking my inbox!
Now I just have anxiety about me saying "too much" as far as personal experiences, and emotions etc.
Either way I figure if I'm honest, and people hate, f em.
Yeah, exactly, it's on them, if they hate
I don't either.
They were struggling with moderation, and a disproportionate number of people they were addressing were coming from those two instances, which happen to have open registration.
Not sure I agree or not, but thats what they said
One of the benefits of federation is the ability to choose your sources. If one doesn’t fit your moderation style you remove it. It’s a feature, not a minus. Expect more of this until the mod tools mature and trolls make homes among the open servers.
I've seen people make analogies between Lemmy instances and email servers, but I don't think it's a great comparison. I think a better one would be ports on a trade route in the old sailing ship days. People are from different port cities, but they get on a ship and go to other ports and trade/interact with the people there.
So with that analogy, the port city of Beehaw is one with more restrictive laws about behavior: if you aren't generally respectful of others, they toss you out. There was a sudden influx at Beehaw of crowded ships from the ports of Lemmy.World and sh.itjust.works, both ports with less restrictive, more wild west attitudes. They found that their sheriffs were spending all their time tossing people who came from ships with one of those two flags, so they decided not to let those ships dock at their port anymore, or let their ships dock at those ports, for now.
That's not half bad
Because echo chamber is awesome. When you say something, no one will disagree with you.
When you have a group that don’t respect the rules and you don’t want to lower yourself to their level of discussion, you cut them out. Why would they be tolerated? And who is at fault here? The people wanting civility or the trolls causing issues? Why are you blaming the people defending themselves?
Cutting the entire world out when there are a few bad guys out there is a stretch. For one troll there are ten meaningfully discussions.
Beehaw is aiming for zero trolls, I don't think they care whether the trolls come with some good people too. They're currently in a position to have zero trolls and I think it's a good goal to strive for
Lemmy currently has several hundred instances, and Beehaw defederated from two of them. They said in their post that they were spending a lot of time dealing with problem posts, and almost all came from those two instances.
And what's the problem? I personally think trying to make a troll -free place on the Internet is doomed to failure unless they close the whole world out, but it's their goal and I certainly support them giving it a shot.
This is all a big experiment, and it's wonderful that different approaches are being tried. We should support that, not piss on it.