You're viewing a single thread.
Uploads thousands of open source 3d printed firearm designs
Like this?
(No Mr. FBI/ATF I do not actually have those)
Just an FYI, that's not illegal because it falls under the U.S. Constitutional protection of free speech; so also is printing and constructing them. Selling them or distributing guns as physical products is not protected, and is in fact illegal.
Wait are you telling me it is legal to construct and possess a fully automatic firearm without a class three license?
Or say, already own a firearm, and then construct a modification that makes it fall out of compliance with local laws by making it fully auto, having a magazine that is too large, or a bump stock or things like that?
I am certain the situation is more complex than you seem to think, hence the semi-ironic disclaimer.
While NFA items are a different story, you're generally allowed to manufacture anything you could legally buy in a store. So no suppressors / SBRs / destructive devices without the appropriate paperwork & tax stamps, no machine guns without all that and a time machine, and no fun allowed if you're a prohibited person. Other than that, there's nothing* stopping you from printing, say, a semi-automatic rifle with a 16 inch barrel or a glock frame.
*Federally. Also, I am a dumbass and not a lawyer, do your own research.
So... it is indeed vastly more complicated.
Glad you agree, this is the internet, and I have run into people uh, quite often, who have gotten into trouble via having a simplistic view of very complex topics and believing they will be fine.
Usually this is not on the topic of guns, but as we appear to live in the stupidest possible timeline, I can never be sure these days.
Uploads thousands of open source 3d printed firearm designs
Like this?
(No Mr. FBI/ATF I do not actually have those)
Nowhere in any part of your comment did you explicitly state, nor imply construction of full-auto and those have been illegal since the fucking 80's.
I made a very general joke.
3d printed gun designs
Then you said
Just an FYI, that's not illegal because it falls under the U.S. Constitutional protection of free speech; so also is printing and constructing them. Selling them or distributing guns as physical products is not protected, and is in fact illegal.
'3d printed guns' includes fully automatic guns.
You then said printing or constructing them is not illegal and is protected by Freedom of Speech.
Then I pointed out that 3d printed guns includes automatic weapons.
At this point, I do not actually know if you are aware that you /can/ find designs for fully automatic weapons on some 3d printed gun sites, and that there are, as I mentioned, a lot of people who are very adamant about that being fine and totally legal.
Again, hence my semi-ironic disclaimer to the FBI/ATF.
How do you think I know there are 3d printed full auto designs, usually in .22lr?
I say 'Semi-Ironic' because I may actually be on a relatively low priority watch list simply for browsing such sites.
I promise you are not on a watch list for looking at 3D printer files. This is the kind of shit the ATF likes to spread to scare people.
Wait are you telling me it is legal to construct and possess a fully automatic firearm without a class three license?
No.
A semi-auto? Yes.
With your class III SOT? Sure, full auto.
Or say, already own a firearm, and then construct a modification that makes it fall out of compliance with local laws by making it fully auto, having a magazine that is too large, or a bump stock or things like that?
Bump stocks are legal again Mr. Outdated Info, but like I mentioned above, while manufacturing things you're allowed to own is something you're allowed to do, manufacturing something you're not allowed to own is perhaps unsurprisingly not allowed. Wtf are we doing here, really? You couldn't have figured this out?
I am certain the situation is more complex than you seem to think, hence the semi-ironic disclaimer.
I mean no not really, these wild claims are yours and yours alone.
Cool, /wasn't replying to you or commenting on the situation generally/.
Glad you felt the need to take my words out of context and then act as if I was being 'wild'.
You are exactly the kind of person I /thought/ the person /I was actually replying to might be/, the kind of disingenuous, abusive, gaslighting, reckless asshole that gives less insane firearms enthusiasts a bad reputation.
I/responded/to/you/,generally/.
I didn't take them out of context, from your statement it is clear you read into the one you replied to and decided it meant he was implying that all other laws and restrictions are null and void simply because some other thing is legal. It's like if he said "you can actually legally put rat poison in peanut butter" in the context of killing rats in their attic and you say "oh yeah well what if you feed it to your neighbor's kid." Obviously the other relevant laws still apply, your comment is not needed at all.
No/u/lol/and/WTF/is/with/the/slashes?
Seems weird it would fall under free speech specifically.
Why?
It's just not how I'm used to thinking of it I guess. Sharing gun designs for 3D printer just doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would be covered by free speech. I always think of sharing your views, opinions, arguing for something and so on as free speech. My reaction would be to consider that other stuff as some sort of publishing or some such thing.
My reaction would be to consider that other stuff as some sort of publishing or some such thing.
Apologies for my poor reading comprehension, i am kind of dumb; can you please elaborate what you mean by that sentence?
It just feels more like distributing a product or something rather than it being the speech mentioned in free speech. I'm not making a legal argument or anything btw, I'm just talking about what the term brings to my mind.
(No Mr. FBI/ATF I do not actually have those)
They're legal, they can suck a fat one even if you do have them. You can even have the files for a DIAS (but if you print a DIAS and get caught you'll be in prison for 10yr.) You can print guns just fine legally though, but only for you they are not* transferrable.
*There is some contention over whether or not it would be legal to transfer. The law specifies intent which is hard to prove, and lends itself to the "well I intended to build it for me, but then eventually I let go of it when I wanted to upgrade..." argument. Thus far I don't think precedent has been set and I certainly don't want to be the case that sets it.
Mhm, theres tons of people who have been imprisoned who have done what you outlined in your asterisk there and it did not work out for them in court.
Regardless of how it /should be/, I am worried about /existing reality/, sure seems like this whole situation is astoundingly technical, complex, constantly changing with different rules being interpreted differently by different judges according to different laws in different locales which pass different relevant laws pretty frequently.
Sure seems like a blanket statement covering guns without a huge write up of specific disclaimers, or a general added comment joking about the complexity of the situation by disavowing being possibly in possession of things that may possibly lead to incarceration is warranted.
Mhm, theres tons of people who have been imprisoned who have done what you outlined in your asterisk there and it did not work out for them in court.
There are also people who the DA neglected to bring charges against at all, and people sometimes get acquitted for the same crimes another gets convicted for, with the same or similar evidence, because the jurors voted differently or the lawyers in one were better than the other. Welcome to the American justice system. I notice you glossed over the part where I said "but I wouldn't try that myself" too, interesting.
Regardless of how it /should be/, I am worried about /existing reality/,
Ok, well as reality currently exists you can manufacture any arms you can legally own for yourself. You can even manufacture suppressors if you do the right forms, engrave the relevant info, and pay your $200 extortion fee. Yes "all those other laws that apply still apply, you can't legally murder someone with it either, duh, and your entire comment is just Mr. Obvious bullshit."
All the laws regarding all firearms are everchanging because people keep attempting pointless feature bans and the ATF who cannot legally regulate as they are not a regularory agency keeps changing their "rules" that totally aren't "laws" even though they carry 10+yr prison sentances specifically to make gun ownership undesirable. Welcome to gun ownership "ghost" or otherwise. This doesn't make the statement that "actually gun files are legal to have, you can even legally print them" false just because you read into it too hard and assume that means it allows you to break other laws.