Daily Discussion Thread: Mon 04 Sep 2023
Daily Discussion Thread: Mon 04 Sep 2023
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It seems there’s a lot of good cooks here. While we’re on the topic of food safety, how do you properly transfer raw meat (especially mince) to the pan?
I learned to cook decades ago at home so plenty of bad habits could have been picked up. It wasn’t unheard of to just push the mince into the pan with the cooking utensil and carry on, but someone who worked hospo told me doing that wasn’t safe/hygienic. (Obviously the browned batch was removed first before adding a new one, or if in a big hurry and the inevitable stewing didn’t really matter it was done all at once. It was cooked thoroughly in a large pan.)
Were they right and I was taught wrong? (Very possible.) Or were they being picky? (They tended to be a highly critical one-up sort of person who would backseat you on any task.)
Maybe it matters less for when there’s further cooking, like for bolognese sauce, but if it’s for something re-added at the end or served straight up I do have doubts.
Since hearing that when I cook I now try to use something separate like tongs or fork to transfer raw meat to the pan. And wash that utensil last/separate.
Mince is a separate category all by itself. High risk of contamination purely because there are a lot of surfaces that have touched implements during the grinding/chopping. However, all meats are pretty much OK if they reach 55 deg celsius which will kill all bacteria. Basically, if it reaches simmer point (just under 100 deg celsius) you are fine as long as the heat has penetrated through the meat. Which is where mince, having small particles, if fine if the mixture simmers for a bit - that is, more than 1 minute.
Roasts and steaks are a bit different, as the interior of the meat hasn't (usually) been contaminated, only the surface. So the surface has to reach a high enough temperature, but the interior can cook at quite a low temperature and still be OK bacterially speaking. And is juicier that way. Plastic packaging gives me the heaves. Ideal environment for bacterial and fungal growth - high humidity and temperature range in the danger zone unless your fridge (and shopping basket) is very cold. Vacuum packaging is marginally better but I still reckon is a bit sus. But this could be because I'm a bit old-fashioned that way.
Re: implements. Any implement is fine if it heats up as per above. Wooden spoons are probably the easiest to use as they heat up to bacteria-killing temperature just fine. Some interesting research has been done on bacterial contamination of wooden implements and chopping boards. Apparently it takes 24 hours and a clean wooden spoon/board has killed most bacteria. This doesn't happen with any other material.
Plastic implements need to be kept scrupulously clean, as they don't handle high heat as well. Metal implements (if left in the dish to heat up) are fine. Silicone implements worry me a bit, but I consider and treat them as plastic and so far so good.
The really important bit is to wash the chopping board and implements very well in hot soapy water, rinse in cold water and air dry protected from dust. Also to wash hands etc. well before and after handling meat of any sort.
Beyond that, it is possible to be too persnickety.That’s good, I observe all that and the meat doesn’t hit a chopping board. Yes, it’s possible this person was just finding fault again
All very well said. The thing I would add is that contamination is somewhat "dose dependent" and you don't need to get rid of 100% of the bacteria for it to be safe to eat. You just need to reduce the amount to what your body is able to deal with (which will vary from person to person)
The biggest risk is situations that allow bacteria to breed - so using one set of tongs to move a steak into the pan, then using the same pair to transfer the cooked meat to the plate is quite low risk because the amount of bacteria that could have been transferred to the tongs and back to the steak is pretty tiny and would not be enough to cause harm. However if you were planning on cooling the same steak to cut up and use in a salad the next day it becomes riskier, because that tiny amount of bacteria is being time and opportunity to grow before you eat it. Similarly using the marinade your meat has been in as a baste at the end of cooking is risky because the marinade is an environment that allows bacteria to breen and build up to harmful amounts.
The time issue is also a reason why some things can be safe for a home cook but unsafe in a commercial environment - large batches of food take longer to heat and cool, and are often kept waiting longer to be served, so they are in the "danger zone" where bacteria can breed and increase for a longer time.
That’s good, as it used to be things would be thawed and cooked repeatedly as part of meal prep.
ie. Freeze bought meat so it stays fresh > (optional precook and freeze) > thaw and cook into actual meal > freeze food in portions
For mince I open the packet with a knife and up end it into the pan and use my wooden spoon to chop it up. I then use a spoon rest. I think the problem lies with using a utensil on raw chicken or fish then using it on cooked food.
Yes, sometimes I open the packet with a knife and use that to push but thinking on it that introduces bacteria from the packaging.
I use paper towel as a utensil rest or hang the working end off the edge but might stand it vertical in a Pyrex jug
Nothing goes between raw and cooked. I’ve got a 3 set of dedicated chopping boards I don’t mix. I hate my fridge because the coldest compartment for fish/dairy/meat is at the very top and the vegetable crisper at the bottom! You’re not meant to have raw meat stored over other foods 😬 (Seriously why is raw meat stored over the salad)
Yeah my meat goes on the bottom shelf always.
same
I use a spoon or fork to put the meat in then use a separate cooking utensil
I use separate everything for raw meat
It does seem safest
I do it that way, push it out with the utensil I was using. Anecdotal, but I haven't had an issue 🤷♀️
Heh. It was bugging me to think I had been doing it wrong